Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Thanks. The entry seemed to phrase it like he got a last-second redemption like that guy from Freezing did, but apparently it was an act.

@Sanfran: He sounds bad . Also, have you ever watched The Girl Next Door?

edited 31st Jul '14 9:34:08 PM by AustinDR

All right, having just finished reading the Dragon Crown War series, I'd like to propose a candidate from those books - their Big Bad, Chytrine.

Who is Chytrine?

She is the tyrannical Empress of the far northern realm of Aurolan. Chytrine is an immortal sorceress of unknown origin (later revealed to be half-dragon) and uncertain motivations who seems hell-bent on conquering the rest of the world. She's made three known attempts at doing this - the first a century before the books begin (when she seized the elven homeland of Vorquellyn), an aborted second attempt during the prequel The Dark Glory War, and her third and final attempt during the main trilogy. The core plot of the books revolves around defeating her, and the main storyline ends with her death.

What does she do?

Chytrine is, in many ways, a fairly archetypical Dark Lord (in many respects she reads almost as Sauron's Distaff Counterpart, down to the fondness for shapeshifting), however, she is a fairly hands-on example of this archetype, controlling her minions with a tight fist. Territories that fall under Chytrine's control are treated truly horribly (the aforementioned Vorquellyn was pretty much scoured of civilization under a century of Aurolani rule, and the city of Svoin- occupied by her forces for only 25 years - had its population literally decimated). Nations her forces invade rightly fear being mostly wiped off the map, with their remaining population enslaved. Her chief lieutenants, the sullanciri, are somewhere between Wheel of Time's Forsaken and the Ringwraiths - like the former, they have distinct quirks and personalities, but like the latter are completely in their Evil Overlord's thrall and cannot disobey her or go far beyond the parameters of their orders (meaning that she ultimately bears the responsibility for all Aurolani war crimes; even if she's not there personally, a sullanciri always is). She deals with even her allies treacherously, offering the hand of friendship to the dragons (her own kin) on one hand, while collecting the pieces of the titular artifact (which will allow her to enslave them and release their ancient enemies) on the other. However, Chytrine's worst act may well be the creation of aforementioned sullanciri - they were once a band of heroes tasked with finding and killing her, until she captured them and inflicted torture, Mind Rape, and Body Horror on them until they voluntarily submitted themselves to her authority and became her thralls, and sent the one hero who refused to break back to her enemies to tell the tale, purely to twist the knife that much deeper.

Any Freudian Excuses, redeeming qualities, or other mitigating factors?

Chytrine has no clear Freudian Excuse. She was raised by her predecessor as ruler of Aurolan, the human wizard Yrulph Kirun (the Morgoth to her Sauron, if you will), but while he was also an Evil Overlord and would-be world conqueror, there's no indication he did anything to make her evil beyond provide an example (Chytrine's biological father, when he eventually shows up, proves to be a pretty decent guy, though his actual influence on her is more or less nil and she expresses no regret over having her minions try and kill him, and barely shows any reaction at all when they succeed).

Chytrine has two potential mitigating factors to her evil, but throws both of them away by the end of the story. The first is her adopted daughter, Isaura, a POV character in the last two books. Chytrine raised Isaura, a magical prodigy, from infancy to be her heir, and Isaura believes that Chytrine genuinely loves her and merely wants to protect Aurolan from outside aggression (pure propaganda, as Chytrine herself is always the aggressor). However, when Isaura does a Heel–Face Turn near the end of the series, Chytrine tries to kill her without hesitation or remorse, and makes it clear that she never cared for her daughter as anything but a means to an end. Second, Chytrine is a worshipper of beings called the Oromise, who are essentially a race of overthrown elder gods, and her ultimate goal is to release them from their prison under Aurolan. At first, her dedication to them seems genuine - until she outright admits to one of the sullanciri that she would force the Oromise to serve her rather than the other way around if she had the means. Ultimately, Chytrine cares for and is loyal to only one thing - her own desire for power.

How does she hold up by the heinous standard of the setting?

Chytrine more-or-less is the heinous standard of the setting, overshadowing all other villains. Her sullanciri, the most significant supporting villains, are her slaves, and none of them are as vile as she (Nefrai-kesh, the most powerful sullanciri and The Dragon, is actually something of a Noble Demon). The most important non-Aurolani villain, the treacherous King Scrainwood, is driven by fear of her as much as by his own ambitions. Her only real competition in the "evil" department was Kirun himself - centuries dead by the time the books take place, and while significant to the backstory, a non-factor for the present-day story.

edited 31st Jul '14 9:51:36 PM by MasterGhandalf

Since nobody's objecting, I'll start a writeup on Volthoom.

• Volthoom is the Reality Warping Big Bad of the Wrath of the First Lantern storyline. Before the beginning of the plot, he was responsible for the torture and murder of millions of people across the universe, which lead to his imprisonment by the Guardians. When they decided to put him in lesser restraints eons later in order to further their own plans, Volthoom broke free and set off on a quest to regain his lost powers by feeding on the emotions of various Lantern ring wielders. To do this, he pulls off a Despair Gambit on each one by showing them what could have happened had something gone different in their most defining or tragic moments in their lives and denying them the chance to change the past. Out of all the emotions, he finds negative ones such as despair and misery the most savory to him. This leaves his victims physically and mentally broken as result. In doing this, he almost drove Atrocitus to suicide and destroyed Korugar and everyone on it when Sinestro resisted and lashed back at him. Volthoom's ultimate goal after completely restoring his power is to rewrite all of reality to the way he wants it to be.

edited 31st Jul '14 9:45:01 PM by despoa

So, did you see the small changes I made to Charles' CM entry on the Jade Green YMMV page?

I may see GOTG this weekend (according to Rotten Tomatoes it's supposed to be good). Anyway:

• Thanos: See if Death is personified like in the comics.
• Ultron: Keep an eye on.
• Strucker: Ditto.

If you're talking about the MCU, the villain you should be concerned about is Ronan at the moment.

I'm probably not going to be able to see it until the next weekend, so keep spoilers spoiler tagged for me please.

As far as I've heard so far, Ronan falls under the same category as Malekith, meaning no real personality (Generic Doomsday Villain).

You know that counts as a minor spoiler in itself right?

Please show some consideration and don't discuss things that in some parts of the world only came out today in a thread where we put a one-to-two week boycott and such things.

Let me give a yea to the Rook Fangire.

I'm also reading Wrath of the First Lantern now, so I'll weigh in on Volthoom right after. However, I give a big yea to Master Ghandalf's proposition from Dragon Crown War. You always propose very good keeps, MG

Guronji: Sole motivation For the Evulz? Body count seems to make him a
Let's say for Chytrine, even if she doesn't do all the acts herself.

edited 1st Aug '14 8:06:02 AM by ACW

@Shaoken: Except that we didn't wait when How to Train Your Dragon 2 and Dawn of the Planet of the Apes came out.

Also, are we sure that Koba is really dead? Because there have been some speculations that an ape could be heard coming out of the wreckage of the destroyed tower in the credits for the film.

edited 1st Aug '14 9:42:44 AM by AustinDR

Yeah, we're fine discussing Ronan now. Everything I've heard about the guy make him a .

We can discuss him now a bit, but anything sensitive, spoiler it.

Also, unless Koba shows up later, I have no issue treating him as a corpse. He ended the film as a CM, so he's fair game.

EDIT: After rewatching GOTG, my previous vote on Ronan has officially been retracted.

edited 2nd Aug '14 10:34:15 PM by sanfranman91

Also, on the western animation page for How to Train Your Dragon 2, it lists Drago as being a Generic Doomsday Villain. Is this just another misuse of the trope?

You know what? From now on we should just delete those examples with a message pointing out that the character in question isn't one because he was voted differently here.

EDIT: There. I just took care of it.

edited 1st Aug '14 11:10:02 AM by VeryMelon

I am looking into another Marvel 2099 character who seems like a real terror. He's a Doom 2099 villain and he seems to be designed make Doom seem sympathetic. His name is John Herod and he seems like the worst of the corporate leaders in Marvel 2099. In the Marvel 2099 universe, Doom eventually conquers America and tries to govern it better then the corporate overlords who ran it into the ground. Herod wants to regain the power he and other corporate leaders lost when Doom took over and he is willing to use mass murder to achieve his ends. I am not quite done my research into him, he seems like one of the most reprehensible characters in the Marvel 2099 universe.

I don't think his actions negates Vulture's though, considering he is a corporate overlord with vast resources, while Vulture is some petty gang leader who likes to hurt people with his own two hands.

Why did the Guardians need Volthoom in lesser restraints? Regardless, solid . Dude seems quite bad.

Also just back from Guardians (great film, much fun), and I'm unsure on Ronan. Let's address some specific points, though.

#28403:

1. He goes on about taking revenge for his father and father's father and so on, but it's kinda ambiguous. We never know what, if anything, the Xandarians even did that's so bad (though they're hardly a 100% pure and good organization given the state of the Kyln). It's clear that he feels he does what in his mind is best for his people, but that just makes him a Knight Templar, especially when his people's legitimate government seeks peace and he only seeks total annihilation.

2. He's not a pawn to Thanos. He works with Thanos at first in order to destroy Xandar (and even then he's impatient and even snaps the neck of the Other), but when he gets his hands on the Infinity Stone and learns what it is he immediately betrays the Mad Titan and promises to kill him when he's done with the Nova Corps/Empire.

3. GDV? No. Malekith I'd call a GDV, but Ronan has coherent motivation (getting "revenge" on Xandar) and personality (ultra-fundamentalist zealot/terrorist).

Current conclusion: What I'm really unsure of is whether or not his attitude towards his people would disqualify him, but at least to me he's no pawn or GDV, and he seems to meet the heinous standard (we can't disqualify him on heinousness just because Thanos might decide to kill half the universe in four years).

edited 1st Aug '14 1:23:29 PM by LordXavius

In regards to 3: Malekith wanted revenge too.

Malekith's plan was something about bringing back the darkness before creation, wasn't it? Whatever the case, I'm still of the opinion that (film) Ronan has much more of an actual personality than (film) Malekith did and is far from a Generic Doomsday Villain, which is defined as "without a believable goal, motive or plan" (in fact, Ronan is the only Phase 2 Big Bad so far I've actually liked as a character).

edited 1st Aug '14 2:00:56 PM by LordXavius

Marvel 2099 Vulture and Doom get a

I'm going to have to see the movie, but so far I'm giving Ronan a .

I wasn't talking about Doom 2099, he is actually sympathetic, I was talking about one of the villains Doom fights John Herod, who is pretty monstrous. I am going to do some more research into Herod and do an effort post down the line, but so far he seems pretty awful.