During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
Edited by miraculous on Oct 13th 2021 at 3:33:39 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Unless it's like how we have Justice League baddies on the main DC page instead of Batman/Superman??
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
So just a note for the future, but Wo W is starting to do with Adaptational Self-Defense with Queen Azshara, yes the Omnicidal Maniac and racist tyrant.
For refrence, Warcraft Chronicles retconned Azshara attacking the Zandalari empire so she could selfishly expand her land to the Zandalar attacking her for no reason forcing Azshara to fight back and thus take their land. It also seems like the writers justifying colonialism
And a big cinematic (seen here), particularly its official description, implied Azshara was worried that her people would drown when her city sunk. This is again a pretty big Retcon as in prior lore she laughed at the deaths of her people.
So whilst she is not a cut right now, its possible she might be in the future.
Slightly offtopic, but I'm really not fond of Warcraft currently doubling down on Always Lawful Good and Always Chaotic Evil, particularly as the latter races are racially coded such as the Zandalar having Jamaican accents, using Mayincatec architecture and worshipping Voodoo
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Wang & Hark
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Honestly I'm still shocked WoW is still a thing.
RIP Toriyama
Yes to Hark, nay to the Bloodlines baddie
Aight, so for as much as I hate this one, I'm gonna follow up on Lighty cutting a sociopathic comicbook businessman with a psychopathic green-skinned counterpart from Marvel....I have to go about cutting a sociopathic comicbook businessman with a psychopathic green-skinned counterpart from DC!
From Batman Beyond...Blight.
- Derek Powers, CEO of Powers Technology, eventually devolves into the psychotic supervillain Blight after a radioactive accident. Before his accident, Powers cheerfully attempts to sell a bioweapon, that horrifically reduces its victims to ash, to terrorists who would use it on wider scales, unnerving even the Kaznian diplomat after he exposes an employee to it purely to demonstrate its effects. Powers becomes the Arch-Enemy of the second Batman, Terry McGinnis, after Powers has Terry's father murdered and the Jokerz framed for it. Powers's deteriorating sanity from the accident only accentuates the monster he is inside, as he experiments on and then attempts to kill Mr. Freeze to harvest his organs; disinherits and then flat-out attempts to murder his own son Paxton; and, upon his vengeful return in the comics, attempts to initiate a nuclear meltdown, heedless of all the downtrodden lives this would consume. Powers has ruined so many lives in the name of self-interest his only reply to Terry's accusation that You Killed My Father is to snarl "do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?!"
So, in the original cartoon, Blight is utterly irredeemable, but questionably lacking in heinousness...in the tie-in comics from the early 2000s, though, Blight is given some extra crimes that push him over.
Here's the thing...in 2011-ish, Volume 4 of Batman Beyond released, and it pretty damn explicitly follows the original series and serves as a continuation. In it, Blight returns from his apparent death in the show, having gone a bit more off his rocker than normal...and he gains an ally, Dr. French, that saves his life after the events of his final episode in the show, and though Blight shouts at him and even smacks him away at one point for trying to talk Blight down in a rampage....when French is actually wounded? Blight completely flips out, screaming his name and attacking Batman while ranting "You've taken everything else from me, you won't take my only friend, too!"
It's....tough because this comic has released around a decade after the show, but it's explicitly a continuation of Blight's story in the original show and it showcases him having a, for all intents and purposes, genuine feeling towards his new partner French, who he seems genuinely attached to after the dude saved his life. Sad cut, methinks.
Edited by Ravok on Oct 13th 2021 at 4:26:49 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Professor Gigachad
Man Blight would be a really sad one to lose it almost makes me want to treat the comics as non-canon but I am not sure if we can, I will probably just abstain.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Oct 13th 2021 at 4:34:32 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Cut Derek powers, and there’s another monster given a mitigating factor completely out of nowhere, I’m not gonna say cut Azshara yet but if that’s the case then we have another out of nowhere mitigating factor that completely retcons the character.
Edited by Mediawatcher on Oct 13th 2021 at 4:38:20 AM
- sociopathic comicbook businessman
...Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?
In seriousness, a sad cut to Blight.
Sadly, the comics are in very explicit continuity with the show. Even if he only developed a redeeming quality under the stress of insanity caused by nuclear degeneration, it's still a redeeming quality, more feeling than he even showed for his own son.
So...sadly, cut Blight.
cut Blight
@nwotyzal
I don't play WOW but really enjoy the Warcraft lore (at least the old one) so I don't think it's that surprising. There are millions of people who simply like the characters and the world Blizzard has created. I personally hope that they will return to RTS games and make a Warcraft 4. I am also hoping for another live-action Warcraft movie.
Edited by WatTambor on Oct 13th 2021 at 2:37:11 PM
The Draftsman of Doom
Well that fucking sucks. RIP dear Blight, you will be missed!
At least the show still has it's other CM... you know, that psychologist guy!
Edited by 43110 on Oct 13th 2021 at 7:48:32 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Bright
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
How heavy is the implication that she cares for her people? If it is particularly strong, we may have to cut her as well.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Cut him I guess.
Misread the post
Edited by Beast on Oct 13th 2021 at 4:51:01 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
I have watched this cinematic and it's VERY heavy but I am not really sure if the cinematic itself is canon. Lighty and Lore are more familiar with current Warcraft lore than me.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
How can the canonicity be determined, then?
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Wasn't she the one we were asked to table until her arc was really and truly through or was that another WoW villain?
That was Sylvanas and she doesn't keep because recently she pulled a redemption arc and turned against the current big bad.
Edited by WatTambor on Apr 7th 2023 at 7:15:16 PM
We have literal direct insight to Azshara's mind from past works. She was willing to sell said people to demons and cares nothing for them....she sees countless Naga dead without batting an eye over it.
We're fine right now.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cut Blight.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
It's been brought up before with the Warbringers video. Here's the whole thing, and around 4:30 you see her sell out her people to an Eldritch Abomination.
Cut Blight
To be fair, if she hadn't done it, her people would have drowned, so I don't think this subverts her redeeming quality.
However, if we don't treat this cinematic as canon, she is fine to stay.
Uh maybe just make an other section for that one.
The others should fit fine in one section.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."