During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Fair enough.
Based on the EP, late
to Albert as well. Another genre influencer.
Ethan makes me think of a keeper from a movie that came out about two years after as well—my first CM ever actually: Bill Cox (Paul Bettany). Also, I saw Speed for the first time around when I saw Cellular for the first time too.
Mr. Gilad.
- Somebody tried to kill me when I was young
. A monster saved my life
: Mr. Heinrich Gilad initially appeared to be a kind, caring figure towards the protagonist, Walter, helping the boy with issues with his troubled homelife. However, Walter soon realizes this masks his true dark intentions. In one of their previous talks, Gilad brings up how he always felt like he was putting up an act and holding back his instincts, deciding to act on them by murdering his students. Gilad lures twenty three students to the schools basement, setting a fire that kills his students along with himself, destroying the school and leaving the survivors and community shaken. It's revealed to scare his captive students into silence, Gilad slashed the throat of Walter's friend Oscar. Walter also realizes that Gilad's supposed kindness was an attempt to lure him to his death, and there were hints of Gilad's true intentions within the answers of a test he was writing.
Comic!Kagan's coming up soon. If not tonight than tomorrow.
Edited by Beast on Oct 8th 2021 at 8:53:50 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."Yes to Wek-Kuu and Ethan.
Edited by Bullman on Oct 8th 2021 at 10:55:27 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread![]()
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Comic!Kagan is supposed to be canon to his game counterpart, save for a glaring Plot Hole and Continuity Snarl in one of his apperances, that I'll cover in the EP. It's just re-reading the comics, I figured Kagan does enough despite his minimal appearances to either warrant a separate entry from his current one, if not an expansion.
Edited by Beast on Oct 8th 2021 at 11:05:34 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."Yes to Wek-Kuu. And hey, more Marvel! This one comes from the old 80s series Wolfpack, which was about five Bronx teenagers recruited by a Cool Old Guy named Mr. Mack to fight evil. Their primary foes were a ancient cult of evil ninjas known as the Nine, and while I may look a bit deeper into them given they're comprised of people who have sworn off their humanity, the most despicable of them was as low-rent as they come. Enter Christian from issue #10.
What has Christian done?
Christian is a fuck-off sociopath gangster in the Bronx who first got in trouble for killing a kid when he was 15. The look of "I don't wanna die" on the kid's face inspired Christian to keep going. Christian subsequently went on to kill a cop and rape his wife when he was barely out of his teenage years.
He's a would-be gang leader, but unfortunately, Christian is so inept, uncharismatic and murderous the only "gang" he can form is that of a bunch of crack-addled street children he proceeds to exploit and abuse. Christian keeps the kids hooked and out of their minds with hard drugs while using them for petty robbery and to sell drugs. When a would-be client insults Christian's jacket, Christian decides the appropriate recourse is to stab him to death.
Christian turns this violence onto the kids soon—when a little boy resists him in horror, Christian cuts out his tongue with a switchblade and leaves him to bleed to death. He even manages to murder a Wolfpack member Slippery Sam by shooting him while Sam's trying to rescue the boy from bleeding to death.
Eventually, Christian's incompetence leads to a massacre—his carelessness in robbing a gas station sets the station up in a blaze, consuming all of the children, as well as multiple cops and innocent people on the premises...while Christian walks away unharmed, unfazed, and totally remorseless that he's gotten his entire "gang" killed ("I am so lucky!"). The Wolfpack proceed to corner him and kick him out of a window, where he kills himself by burning himself alive to go out in a "blaze of glory."
Any mitigating factors?
Christian is literally as low tier as they come. He doesn't last a single second against the Wolfpack as an actual team, and his only resources consist of a gun, a knife, and multiple coked-out, starving children. He's literally a criminal from real life and a particularly stupid, low-life criminal at that.
In the very grounded setting of Wolfpack—nobody was exactly superpowered—Christian was still bottom barrel. And he still commits the most disgusting crimes, ones the narrative treats with extreme levity given his choice of victims.
Conclusion?
Despite his low body count I think Christian is well over the line for The Fagin. What do we say?
Edited by Scraggle on Oct 8th 2021 at 1:36:56 PM
Agreed there. For our end, too:
What's the work?
Sometimes They Come Back is a short story by Stephen King, but the subject of this post shall be the film adapation. Jim Norman is a fellow with a sad past. HE's a respectable teacher now, but in the past? As a young boy, his elder brother Wayne protected him...and died against a gang of violent Greasers, led by our candidate: Richard Lawson.
Who is Lawson?
A swagger, leather wearing sadist with a wicked smirk and a switchblade....Lawson came upon the boys Wayne and Jim Norman when they were crossing the tunnel and tried to rob them. Gleefully attacking them, Lawson brutally murdered Wayne, and tried for Jim when they heard a train coming...but a vengeful Jim had taken Lawson;s car keys and the Greasers, trapped, were helpless when the train hit, except for one member of the gang who slipped out the window to flee...
Then years later, a car eerily similar to Lawson's runs a student off the road fatally and with an open spot? Lawson shows up in class, to Jim's horror, who tells himself it can't be the same teenager...but Lawson begins tormenting Jim, torturing and murdering another student to revive the second of the gang, Vinnie....then Lawson catches another student named Chip and tortures and dismembers him to bring back the last of the dead trio... On the 27th anniversary of theirs and Wayne's deaths, Lawson then tries to murder Jim's young son.
Now, it's explained when spirits have unfinished business? Sometimes they can come back and Lawson really wants revenge on Jim, but explains they want Mueller there as well....and plan to kill Jim and his family, with Mueller, still alive, trying to help Jim. Lawson murders him, but with Mueller's death? the gate to the spirit world is open and someone else returns: Wayne. In the battle with Wayne, the trio are bound to their old fates and Jim tells Lawson it's done: he's going to hell this time...the car is struck by a ghost train and the trio killed, which is veeeery different from the story where Jim summons a frigging demon in Wayne's form to drag them to hell, whereupon it promises it might well return...
But here? Happy ending.
Mitigating issues?
I proposed Tony Reno from the made for TV sequel which shares only a similar concept years ago. Like Tony, lawson is the gang boss and the driving forc,e who treats his gang members like followers and little else (Though Tony is far more explicit to this)...now, Tony is no longer human but has transitioned to become a demon and is intensely sadistic and gruesome with his kills while Lawson is more...efficient. That said, Lawson's kills edge to a bit of a higher body count and he also tries to murder three children: Jim, Wayne and Jim's son. I'd say nobody is overshadowed and we're good here.
Tony is still an easy keeper, being shockingly monstrous for a B-film like the sequel.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
