During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Jang, Aaron, & Geisel
All on page 11293.
Also saw that last episode of What If…? (2021), looking forward to the discussion.
So I think Carnage's writeup from Spider-Man: The Animated Series looks a bit off compared to the other ones especially for a character only in two episodes. He is my proposed rewrite.
Current:
- "Venom Returns" & "Carnage": Cletus Kasady, aka Carnage, is introduced as an psychotic lunatic willing to use a bomb to kill himself and everyone within a 200 meter radius just for giggles. After entering into the service of Dormammu and bonding with the offspring of Eddie Brock's symbiote, Kasady uses his newfound power and connections to become an even worse menace. Unlike Eddie who, when bonded with his symbiote, creates a combined persona called Venom, Cletus is so psychotic that he still remains completely aware and in control after bonding with his symbiote. First helping Venom steal an interdimensional probe, Kasady quickly displays contempt towards his "dad's" softness and proves himself willing to kill Venom on the flimsiest of pretexts. Kasady would later go on to steal the souls of numerous innocent people in order to summon Dormammu and herald the end of the world. Once Spider-Man defeats him by letting him be sucked into Dormammu's home dimension, Kasady attempts to grab Eddie Brock's Love Interest, Dr. Ashley Kafka, to take her with him. He's only thwarted by Eddie sacrificing himself instead. Rampantly homicidal and needlessly sadistic, Kasady was a far cry from the usual Spider-Man villain, doing evil solely for the carnage it unleashed on the world.
Mine:
- "Venom Returns" & "Carnage": Cletus Kasady, aka Carnage is a psychotic lunatic who starts by trying to use a bomb to kill himself and everyone within a 200 meter radius out of sadism. After joining Dormammu and bonding with the offspring of Eddie Brock's symbiote, Kasady uses his newfound power and connections to become an even worse menace. First helping Venom steal an interdimensional probe, Kasady quickly displays contempt towards his "dad's" softness and tries to kill Venom multiple times for pettiness. Kasady would later steal the souls of numerous innocent people in order to summon Dormammu and bring the end of the world. Once Spider-Man defeats him by letting him be sucked into Dormammu's home dimension, Kasady attempts to grab Eddie Brock's Love Interest, Dr. Ashley Kafka, to take her with him and is only thwarted by Eddie sacrificing himself instead.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Oct 6th 2021 at 5:29:05 AM
24-26.
![]()
I think the sentence about his personality not being affected can go, it's one of those "Introduce a potential mitigating factor and explain why it's not a problem" that come across as awkward unless we're dealing with someone like Patrick Bateman to whom such things are pivotal to their character.
Edited by 43110 on Oct 6th 2021 at 8:27:21 AM
I mean, its Carnage. The point of Carnage is being a Dark Mirror of Venom. If the Symbiote is The Corrupter to Peter and Eddie, Carnage is meant to be someone that embraces The Corruption. Its quite vital to the character, "What happens if you give The Corruption to someone that is already a rotten person?"
Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 6th 2021 at 7:30:15 AM
Watch me destroying my countryI removed that part in Carnage's writeup I also have another one for a character who I am pretty sure has such a long one due to being an iconic character, when it is really not needed.
Current:
- Gravity Falls: Bill Cipher is an interdimensional demon and is, despite his appearance, his demeanor, and his twisted sense of humor, quite sadistic. A being of chaos who killed his parents and destroyed his home realm to escape its limitations, Bill sought to escape his decaying realm by invading another world he could wreak havoc on, and set his eye on Earth's universe. A chessmaster extraordinaire, Bill exploited the desperation of Stanford Pines, manipulating him into building a portal that would allow the fusion of the Nightmare Realm and the physical world so Bill could wreak chaos worldwide. In the present, Bill stalks the Pines twins after their initial meeting. At the turning point of Bill's plan, Bill goads a despondent Mabel into handing him the means in which to break the gap between the real world and the Nightmare Realm—and, after doing so, traps Mabel in a Lotus-Eater Machine and unleashes "Weirdmaggedon" on Gravity Falls. Demonstrating his random cruelty by abominating Preston Northwest's face, Bill assaults the town, which sees almost all its citizens converted into a series of statues built into a "throne of human agony", and the rest living in hiding in a horribly-mutated Eldritch Location. Bill is dismissive of the fact that his influence could lead to destruction of existence itself, and callously vaporizes Time Baby and the Time Police squad once they point this out to him. A being who was motivated by a lust of chaos and random whims, Bill happily conducted torture and the attempted brutal murder of children to further his goals. Treating everyone like a pawn and life itself as a game, Bill Cipher devoted his entire existence to wreaking chaos and destruction on the world at large.
Mine:
- Gravity Falls: Bill Cipher is an interdimensional demon and is, who killed his parents and destroyed his home realm to escape its limitations, Bill sought to escape his decaying realm by invading another world he could wreak havoc on, and set his eye on Earth's universe. A Bill exploited the desperation of Stanford Pines, manipulating him into building a portal that would allow the fusion of the Nightmare Realm and the physical world so Bill could wreak chaos worldwide. In the present, Bill stalks the Pines twins after their initial meeting. At the turning point of Bill's plan, Bill goads a despondent Mabel into handing him the means to break the gap between the real world and the Nightmare Realm—and, after and unleashes "Weirdmaggedon" on Gravity Falls. Demonstrating his random cruelty by abominating Preston Northwest's face, Bill assaults the town, which sees almost all its citizens converted into a series of statues built into a "throne of human agony". Bill is dismissive of the fact that his influence could lead to the destruction of existence itself, and callously vaporizes Time Baby and the Time Police squad. Bill happily conducted torture and the attempted brutal murder of children to further his goals.
If anyone wants to trim it further be my guest.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Oct 6th 2021 at 5:38:13 AM
If Scraggle would like to that's fine but we all agreed it was fine the way it was. Ordeaux you get into grooves where you do this en masse and I'm noticing awkward flow in the rewrites and grammatical errors. Can you take it easy on these? Some are fine but I think they're being done in such bulk slip ups are happening.
Actually, you know what—why are we rewriting Bill? Are we really clamouring for him to be "much shorter" or is this just an arbitrary shred?
What does the thread think? I'm fine leaving the entry as is because I think Bill warrants it.
Also, Ordeaux—tone it done with the confrontational attitude. I'm getting a very mini-mod attitude from you right now over a frankly nonexistent issue.
Edited by Scraggle on Oct 6th 2021 at 6:54:19 AM
