During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
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I say go for it, I've been curious about him myself.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Abstain for Joshy,
Countiness
If anyone has updates on these, let everyone know.
- Joran: The Princess of Snow and Blood: July 2021 TBD (Largo Quagmire)
- The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Manga Volume 9: September 28, 2021 (English Release)
- A Certain Scientific Railgun T: Ongoing(43110)
- A Certain Scientific Accelerator(Anime Adaptation): 2021 (43110)
Worse than Danuta that's for sure. Worse than his friend who helped him in his villainy due to Josh being a pedophile while his friend wasn't as well as being more brutal than his friend. Josh married a child while he was in his 30's, something neither his friends, uncle, and father did.
Edited by OrrorSANESS on Sep 29th 2021 at 9:12:30 AM
Just finished the Courage/Scooby crossover. I think Katz is fine to be kept. The series ended almost two decades ago and doesn't have the exact same writers.
But yeah I was disappointed about how non-heinous Katz was. He had the resources to do some really bad things with that dark matter meteor but...uses it to get money? Katz didn't even care about money in the og series so yeah I would chalk it up to inconsistent characterization.
Eh, how heinous Katz's motives were varied from episode to episode anyway. Sometimes he's a Serial Killer. Sometimes he's just trying to win a cooking contest against Muriel
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Yeah, but it's far less heinous than what he did in his prior two appearances, especially since the episode shown that getting turned into candy wasn't lethal.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Sep 28th 2021 at 10:26:05 AM
Didn’t he try to outright kill the Bagges with a monster afterwards when he lost the cooking contest?
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Sep 28th 2021 at 6:41:09 AM
“Get Snuck-Up On.”Yes to Cantliss, the Countess, Ninjago villain, Judge, Bo Long
No to Josh Hutcherson
Edited by RobertTYL on Sep 28th 2021 at 11:47:26 PM
I got a question because I think I might have a new candidate coming up, was Ellis DeWald properly discussed here? I only saw him brought up once during the early days of this thread, but I don't know if he was actually discussed properly here.
My first try at finding a candidate for this thread.
A lady called Katya (or, more often, simply the Wife).
What is the Work
The Wife is a Black Comedy short story by Arkady Averchenko, told from the point of view of a besotted husband gushing over his loving wife. It is made abundantly clear for the reader, however, that the wife is first manipulating him into insuring his life in her favour, and when he does that, begins driving him to the grave.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done
Katya is married to an adoring and gullible husband and hides her own true nature behind a loving facade. When he gets a diamond pin for his birthday, she grabs it away from him and claims it will attract street muggers, and then has it remade into a diamond brooch for herself; when her husband anxiously reminds her about the mugger danger, she sweetly says she doesn't care for herself as long as he is alive and well. When he finds a man's hat he has never seen before in her bedroom, she tells him it is her gift for him, bought second-hand because she can't afford a new one.
Then the husband decides to repay his wife for her love by insuring his life in her favour. Immediately afterwards, still masquerading it all as her care for him, Katya begins to slowly drive him to death. She tells him to drink as much wine as he pleases and then some, buys him boxes of cigars, though his lungs are weak, feeds him with heavy pies and encourages him to dress lightly in winter. By the end, the man is implied to be in such a drunken haze he can't even tell whether it is snowing or not. In the final scene, the husband drinks some wine and complains of pain in his chest, and Katya gently advises him to smoke a cigar to get rid of it.
Mitigating Factors / Freudian Excuse
None. Her husband is a kind, trusting man deeply in love with her, and she is killing him via slow, meticulous manipulation rather than acting on a spur-of-the-moment decision, purely to get her hands on his money. Though she watches him gradually go to pieces thanks to her own actions, she never shows any remorse and continues with her Sickeningly Sweethearts act.
Conclusion
Keep
Edited by AutumnLeaves on Sep 28th 2021 at 7:08:54 PM
Jonah Hex candidates, Chiles, Omega, Judge, Grega, Kufard, Julia, Marc, demon, Beryl.
Abstain on Josh.
Keep Katz.
Cut King.
Countess, Wife.
I also got a question yet to be answered by the way
, I don't mean to be pushy.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Sep 28th 2021 at 12:18:17 PM
To Orror: What we ask is, how he does compare to the overall setting?
Or honestly...how it does work. Because I legit don't get it.
Its told via Big Events, or is a fantasy novel set on a alternate world?
Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 28th 2021 at 11:25:24 AM
Watch me destroying my countryAlso, hey, time to discuss the new Nic Cage film!
What's the work? Prisoners of the Ghostland.
Welcome to a devastated Japan, quarantined from the rest of the world after a terrible accident...devolving into warlords ruling the land with barbarism, "Samurai Town" i ruled by the wicked Governor...The Governor gets our Hero, the uh....
"Hero" to track down his missing granddaughter, having an explosive collar on him....and she's missing in the Ghostland, the dark wasteland where no man dares tread if he's sane...
So...let's talk...
Who is the Governor?
The Governor, played by Bill Moseley, is a charming Southern gentleman (In Japan) who wears a white suit and hat and presents like he's living it up in the Antebellum South. He's the one who reigns over a city called "Samurai Town" with an iron fist...and he gets his jollies propagating a system of human trafficking of young girls that he enslaves and raises as sex slaves, disturbingly making them call him "Grandpa.", You know what this means, of course? His "favorite granddaughter Bernice?" Is his former concubine, who escaped with other girls.
The Governor keeps the mutated, suffering people of the "Ghostland" forced out of Samurai Town, calling them monstrosities who he won't allow to live in his civilized society, condemning them to the wasteland...which Bernice and some others are willing to risk to escape him. The Governor forces Hero to find Bernice for him, outfitting him with a series of bombs that will detonate under the right circumstances of harming Bernice resulting in arm bombs, sexual arousal by Bernice resulting in testicular bombs, and a final neck one that will detonate and kill Hero if he fails in his mission to return Bernice....
The film cuts back to Samurai Town, where we see the Governor's rather insane whims making life hell for everyone. One of them,Suzie, basically having gone nuts from his abuse and control, the Governor has one of the escaped girls, Stella, found and captured, then executed her via decapitation in front of Samurai Town to show what happens for betraying him while sadistically counting down her lifespan, having everyone scream "Tick! Tock!" before her murder. When Hero eventually returns with Bernice, the Governor goes back on his word to release Hero from the suit and refuses just to be a dick, sneering he wouldn't even waste any piss on him.
But...With Hero and Bernice leading army of Ghostland folk in invading Samurai Town to overthrow him, the Governor orders his men to kill his foes while he is humiliated by many of the women taking the opportunity to flee his control, ransack his riches and call him a loser. The Governor corners Suzie and pathetically tries to beg for her to stay with him ("It's Grandpa, I'm not gonna hurt you!"), but is confronted by an armed Bernice.
The Governor snarls that Bernice is a "dirty dog bitch" and proudly brags that he'll just find another girl like her, orphaned, alone and traumatized, to replace Bernice with, to which Bernice shoots him dead for all his crimes.
Mitigating issues?
Look, the guy is a serial sex slaver of little girls he turns into "granddaughters" with brutal repression. He's basically Southern Fried Immortan Joe, and the film makes no bones about it.
He has the girls treated "well" but if they defy him? He shows his true self and has no compunction maiming or murdering them for it. Even him trying to cozy up to Suzie is just him desperately clinging to any vestige of power he has left.
Conclusion?
Easy keeper.
