During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
I don't think so.
He was created when the first spinjitsu created Ninjago as light required darkness to counteract it. He's not dead either as his presence is required to keep the realm stable (word of God is that he wasn't destroyed but instead sealed away)
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So what say everyone on Morgan Edge's rewrite? Use, or keep as is?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Going to ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Countess. She seems bad but this is a barely public beta. We've refrained from voting up villains in demo or beta builds before(Deltarune is more episodic over demo I believe)
Yes to Star's folks, Cantliss, the Judge and Omega. No to the Countess for now.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the Judge dude
And oh would people be alright with doing the Deltarune discussion a bit early? I think I can lay out all my thoughts in a couple minutes.
The First man
Lizzid people!
Don't mind myself.
Goku Black
Okay if it's that.
I think I have to go with .
I think we were having a discussion and decided that the information had to be at least accessible normally for everyone (even if through a paywall like netflix). Rather then a temporary beta only available to a select group.
We can always wait will the game properly comes out.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Please. Can we just get this over with. It's been grating how many people have come through here for it.
Edited by miraculous on Sep 28th 2021 at 10:31:28 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
If we wanna talk about Deltarune now and get these insipid "Can we talk about X now?" posts to stop I would love that. All power to you Kylo.
Go right ahead.
Also, switching to a to the Countess. I didn't know that selectively released demos could be covered before their final release. Sorry everyone for my misunderstanding there.
Edited by DrUnknown on Sep 28th 2021 at 10:40:48 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, wait, it's a closed beta/demo? That's iffier.
BTW, Morgan Edge, current or trimmed?
- Season 3: Morgan Edge, the CEO of Edge Global, is introduced as an incredibly unpleasant, self-absorbed and sexist man, but quickly proves himself to be much worse than just that. Having personal profitable plans for the Waterfront of National City, Edge hires a terrorist for an attack on the underwater foundation of the district, endangering hundreds of people attending a public Supergirl event. After Lena Luthor buys CatCo from under his nose, which he planned on remodeling into his own personal propaganda paper, Edge shows just how low he is willing to stoop to destroy somebody for a perceived personal slight: By poisoning an entire public school full of children and then blaming it on Lena's countermeasure against the Daxamite invasion. When Lena confronts him, he has her knocked out and strapped on a remotely controlled plane, carrying more of the poisonous chemicals, which he intends to crash on the city. Edge also shows himself to be completely dismissive of his employee's lives, having two them killed to protect his reputation after failed assassination attempts on Lena, or even using one of them as a Human Shield to save his own hide at one point. In a world full of superpowered menaces, Morgan Edge still manages to stand out as a despicable human being, only concerned with his own position of power.
- Season 3: Morgan Edge, the CEO of Edge Global, is introduced as a self-absorbed and sexist man, but quickly proves himself to be much worse than just that. Having plans for the Waterfront of National City, Edge hires a terrorist for an attack on the underwater foundation of the district, endangering hundreds of people attending a public Supergirl event. After Lena Luthor buys CatCo from under his nose, Edge shows just how low he is willing to stoop to destroy somebody for a perceived personal slight: By poisoning an entire public school full of children and then blaming it on Lena's countermeasure against the Daxamite invasion. When Lena confronts him, he has her knocked out and strapped on a remotely controlled plane, carrying more chemicals, which he intends to crash on the city. Edge also shows himself to be completely dismissive of his employee's lives, having two them killed to protect his reputation after failed assassination attempts on Lena, or even using one of them as a Human Shield at one point. In a world full of superpowered menaces, Morgan Edge still manages to stand out as a despicable human being, only concerned with his own position of power.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Personally I say trimmed. I don't see why a character who only appears in four episodes should be 220 words. But that could just be me.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
No to The Countness. to Edge's trimmed write-up.
Goku Black
Edge rewrite.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Alrighty
So, Deltarune.
Yeah the Spades king is a Sad cut, in this Chapter? We get one or 2 Cameos by him, where he asks if Lancer was okay, and reveals that he was bluffing when he threatened to throw lancer off the bridge, and saying even if he did throw Lancer, he would just...Bounce. Affectionally calling him a 'Bouncy little Pumpkin'.
It makes, Zero sense with what we know of the King or...even that exact scene(What was the deal with him strangling Lancer and yelling when Lancer didn't obey him? Or Him trying to force Lancer to watch his friends die while telling him it would be all his Fault?) And..I think that's the joke?, with how the first scene with him plays out, with Susies reaction, It feels like it's supposed to be a Parody Of villains getting sudden redeeming features? Particularly as its clearly going for more of a Comedic tone there(see, him Trying to say you were jealous of his giant hamster cage, sucking from its water bottle proclaiming 'Feel despair!')
Atleast it's funny, I guess. Who knows, maybe this is really set up for some plot twist later where hell reveal its all Bullcrap again and do some new horrible thing.
Last thing I want to say? I don't want to hear a single damn 'I told you so' Or anything of the sort from, certain people. Frieds reasoning was totally legit, that we wouldn't get another chapter for a longtime, and it would end up being 3 damn years before we got here. He was a genocidal asswipe who literally mocks you for thinking he had mitigating qualities while trying to kill you, and was defeated in his Chapter. Yes, new....weird Points came up eventually, and he'll be cut for it, but there wasn't anything wrong with the process.
Now for anyone else while we're at it? This chapters villain, Queen, is about as far as you can get from this. She's deliberately the Kings antithesis, she's affable, is Played for Laughs(And good God Are they laughs, she's freaking great), is a Firm Anti-Villain Cares about Lancer and Noelle in her own way and she actually wants to help Lighteners, unlike the King having no idea that using the Fountain will wipe them out. And flunks the Standard compared to the King or hell, Us(We have the option to have Kris gaslight there childhood friend into being a murderer). Spamton(One of the greatest villains in all of fiction) is...Notably worse in the Weird route where he's the Final Boss, kind of a full on Sociopath, helping you rampage in the dark World so he could take it over at the end, before trying to kill Kris Sadistically mocking them when they try calling for help. He probably flunks the Standard still and has Iron clad mitigating factors in the other route.
As for the knight? Well they are worth keeping an eye on, atleast. There end goal is expanded on even more here, causing 'The Roaring' by having the Dark fountains flood the world. The Roaring being an event where 'The Titans' would rise and ravage the whole world(Yes I think it's supposed to be a referance to that), and apparently this would destroy Both Worlds. As the Darkeners would be turned to stone.
It uhh...Also ends with Kris, heavily indicated to be the Knight themselves(And may or may not be Chara) or atleast being controlled by him, opening a dark fountain themselves and letting darkness flood things. Seemingly causing the Roaring for themselves(5:40 if your curious https://youtu.be/zj7VSzj4wGk).
So yes, that's all there's to talk about basically, glad to finally end the Pestering about it, it's a damn good game atleast
Edited by Snoketrope on Sep 28th 2021 at 12:32:40 PM
The First man
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Gonna snag The Harder They Fall for discussion this November if everyone's fine with that.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
As the guy who reserved the Deltarune discussion for myself, I agree with Snoketrope and give the King a sad . I could see WeirdRoute!Spamton qualifying if not for his mitigating factors from the Normal Route + obvious moral agency issues due to how batshit insane he is. I guess he's no BIG SHOT for this trope.
Cut the King. Sad to see Toby Fox's one CM go, but he doesn't particularly seem to type to believe in pure evil (beyond maybe giving the player that opportunity should they choose). Maybe in the future, but for now...
- Rottweiler: Warden Kufard is the man responsible for the eponymous killer Rottweiler. A lascivious, sadistic Spanish warden who takes pleasure in imprisoning, torturing and murdering illegal immigrants, Kufard murders and rapes the protagonist's girlfriend while gloating "she wasn't even a good fuck!" later on. When his dog is killed, Kufard repurposes it as a soulless robotic killer and has it slaughter countless innocent people. Kufard is also a sex slaver with a well-known proclivity to selling women in brothels; one of his former girls is killed by the Rottweiler.
We can finally cut King. People have been really trigger-happy with messing with his entry early, so thanks, I appreciate it.
The Moron
And since we all knew it was coming at this point, King is a cut.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
This is why I prefer to wait for a game to be fully released before discussing candidates. Sad cut to the King.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Goku Black
Cut the king. And we can now thankfully move on from this. Thank God.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yep, sounds like the King's been dethroned. Cut.
Yes to the Judge though.
Yes to Omega, Judge, and Countess.
Can we please wait a bit before any more EPs?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts