During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to Cantliss.
Also so it doesn't get burried reposting my proposed Edge shortening.
- Season 3: Morgan Edge, the CEO of Edge Global, is introduced as a self-absorbed and sexist man, but quickly proves himself to be much worse than just that. Having plans for the Waterfront of National City, Edge hires a terrorist for an attack on the underwater foundation of the district, endangering hundreds of people attending a public Supergirl event. After Lena Luthor buys CatCo from under his nose, Edge shows just how low he is willing to stoop to destroy somebody for a perceived personal slight: By poisoning an entire public school full of children and then blaming it on Lena's countermeasure against the Daxamite invasion. When Lena confronts him, he has her knocked out and strapped on a remotely controlled plane, carrying more chemicals, which he intends to crash on the city. Edge also shows himself to be completely dismissive of his employee's lives, having two them killed to protect his reputation after failed assassination attempts on Lena, or even using one of them as a Human Shield at one point. In a world full of superpowered menaces, Morgan Edge still manages to stand out as a despicable human being, only concerned with his own position of power.
Now bellow 200 words.
Edited by Bullman on Sep 28th 2021 at 9:43:36 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadYes to even more Hex villains, Izual, Stargher, Kufard, Chiles and Cantliss.
Why doesn't 43 join Lighty/Scrags/Ravok/STAR in the Hex binge? I thought he'd did that for Lupin III.
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.ACW: Did you see my shortening? Are you cool with it? If you don't think it's necessary we could just forget it.
Edited by Bullman on Sep 28th 2021 at 10:03:38 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadI added to drafts. If people decide it's not needed I will remove it.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadOK, if there are no objections, here we go with the EP.
What's the work?
Diablo is a big universe which includes a video game series and books. It takes place in the world of Sancruary and depicts the conflict between the Angels and Demons who fight for control over the world of men.
Who is the Countess? What has she done?
While she was alive, the Countess was a vain, narcissistic woman who wanted to preserve her beauty at any cost. In her backstory she killed and bathed in the "rejuvenating" blood of 100 virgins (if you are wondering, yes, she is based on Elizabeth Báthory). For her crimes she was buried alive and her treasures were taken.
However, some time later she was revived somehow and continued to haunt the Forgotten Tower. She killed a lot of adventurers who tried to enter the tower and steal treasures but she was finally killed by the player in Diablo II.
However, she is revived yet again in Diablo Immortal by a cult called the Bloodsworn. The Countess sent out the cultists to massacre a lot of people in order to collect their blood and use it in a ritual to restore the Countess to her former glory.
At some point the Bloodsworn destroy the town of Blackwater Village and massacre the entire population to collect their blood (We see the aftermath of the destruction and we also see a lot of human corpses that had been drained of their blood. There is also a little girl who is killed on-screen).
When Lakrri, the leader of the Bloodsworn, reports about the atrocity, the Countess declares that the blood they have collected is still not enough to restore her to her former glory and they should "hasten their efforts".
The Countess and her minions spread corruption throughout the land which deforms the plants and have also kidnapped a Druid and tortured him by using gigantic vines to extract information about how they can spread the corruption even further.
During one of their confrontations, the Countess' dialogue reveals that she wants to slaughter everyone who lives on her former domain. This is what she says:
Her minions later ambush a group of Rogues, kill most of them and drag the rest, so that their blood can be sacrificed to the Blood Rose (the source of corruption in the land). After the player destroys the Rose, he goes to confront the Countess herself, kills her and saves the people of the land.
Heinous standard
The world of Diablo is a pretty dark place to live in with Demons who constantly seek to corrupt humanity and even the Angels themselves are not saints since they voted on whether or not they should destroy humanity. There are also some nasty humans like Lazarus, Maghda and Adria.
However, I still believe that the Countess does enough to stand out. She has killed 100 virgins in her backstory and has bathed in their blood (this happens off-screen but there is enough to establish a pattern), wiped out an entire town to drain the inhabitants of their blood, massacred and intended to massacre even more people throughout her former domain to satiate herself with their blood and tortured a Druid for information. I would say she is bad enough considering that she is a pretty minor antagonist and is not allied with the Demons.
Mitigating factors
She is a vain narcissist who wants to drain other people of their blood, so that her own beauty would never fade away.
About redeeming qualities, she doesn't care about her followers and even proclaims that when they die, she can gather their blood as well and use it for her purposes. The leader of the Bloodsworn, Lakrri displays undying loyalty towards the Countess to the point where she sacrifices her own life for her, but the Countess herself doesn't react to her death and there is no indication that she views her minions as anything more than disposable tools.
Conclusion
I believe she keeps.
Edited by WatTambor on Sep 28th 2021 at 6:38:23 PM
Okay he may not pass but hey worth a discussion.
So Ninjago.
What's the work?
LEGO Ninjago is a franchise of LEGO products introduced in 2011 and is one of the brand's Long Runners at ten years strong. The premise is founded almost entirely on Rule of Cool: A group of Ninja with Elemental Powers fight to defend their homeland of Ninjago from ever-persistent, varying group of bad guys, from undead skeletons and serpentine armies to biker gang cults and rogue video game A.I.s. Aside from their powers and typical marial art trainings, the ninja utilize the sub-titular art of Spinjitzu, spinning at high velocity to channel elemental power tornados, to fight back against their eneimes.
Anyway through seasons 8-10 are a trilogy known as the Oni trilogy. Where the Oni, beings who rule the realm of destruction live. They warred with the dragons who represented creation. A child was born between these warring races who tried to unite them. After failing he left and became the First Spinjitsu master and used his great power to create the world of Ninjago. For millennia, his presence and great power kept the leader of the Oni, Omega at bay from invading but well things have changed after his passing. With him leaving his sons Master Wu and Lord Garmadon in charge.
So let's discuss the leader of the Oni.
Who is Omega ?
I AM THE OMEGA. THE DESTRUCTOR. THE BRINGER OF DOOM
The Big Bad of season 10 "March of the Oni", a gravely voiced pure-blooded Oni (in contrast to his minions who are just creations) and attempted conqueror of the 16 releams. He is their leader. Omega first has his minions attack the realm of dragons, covering it in darkness and converting the residents into " lifeless statues", planning to spread across the entire releams and convert it into a lifeless world of darkness ( which will be "The End" as Lord Garmmadon says). The ultimate plan being to effectively erase creation itself, so destruction and darkness can reign.
Anyway using the realm crystal as a portal, he unleashes his monsters on New Ninjago city which converts the residents into petrified in terror statues. Garmadon and his son Lloyd /Green Ninja head into the city (since their descended from Oni through the first ninjitsu master, they are unaffected by the darkness). Their plan being to destroy the realm crystal so that the horde can be beaten back...
Anyway they're interrupted by the omega who is genuinely shocked that an Oni (Garmadon) would fight for the sake of the Ninjago realm. Anyways taunting him that he is the destroyer and bringer of doom, he sends his minions after them. They're only repelled by two running into the Golden armour (an armour made from the weapons of the four ninja that was wielded by the Overlord). After being scared of it's power, They use it to escape and refuge the armour back into the four weapons.
And head back to their home base where they all wait for his return. Using the four weapons their able to send of his forces. The Omega is still stunned that Garmaddon is fighting for the realm and mocks him for being torn between good and evil.
You are Oni, but Oni in form. In your heart, I sense uncertainty and doubt. Part of you longs to understands these pitiful beings, to be one of them... your hopes weaken you.
Anyway the ninjas together are able to use the tornado of creation to destroy him....which reverse his victims from their state and stops the destruction spree.
Heinous standard?
So Ninjago is pretty light but has a pretty high standard.
Pythor plans to unleash the great devourer to destroy humanity and allow Serpentine to reign supreme, Lord Chen started a pointless war between humanity and the serpentine which directly led to the exitvnion of one race of Serpentine, Moro and premenint plan to wipe out Ninjago, Nadakang intends to terraform Ninjago into his own desert realm, Lord Garamddon hinself tried to remake Ninjago in his own inage, Kalmaar plans to wipe out humanity, the overlord attempted to transform Ninjago into a realm of darkness. Thing is a lot of the villains are also standard take over the world types. Since theirs a new plot every series.
Honestly though Omega would still pass. His plan to reverse creation and create the end of the world for all 16 realms is the worst thing in the series. Transforming innocent civilians lifeless and with intent to make it permanent (all of which is played for horror. Unlike some of the above who are rather goofy...)
Mitigating factors?
A pure blooded Oni named Myisake made a heel face turn in the previous season and gave her life to protect Ninjago so Oni do have agency .
Now is he a GDV. Tbh he's not that interesting and speaks with a really low voice. But you know I think we have just enough. Him mocking Garmaddon and his intense hatred of him and utter disbelief that he'd actually care is actually rather surprising. The fact he outright mocks him for the fact that he is struggling with his good and evil side. Mixed with being a really wrathful dick I think maybe enough. At the very least its more than actual monsters with no personality like The great devourer and preminent get.
Conclusion ?
You decide.
Edited by miraculous on Sep 28th 2021 at 8:39:01 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I wanna head off a question, too: Khalul doesn't count. Setting aside that he never appears in the flesh, it's strongly implied Khalul only fell to evil to bring Bayaz to justice. While the scale of his evil deeds is...frankly insane and just as bad as Bayaz, it's heavily likely he'd have redeeming qualities. Whereas...
Alright, Age of Madness time! 28 years or so after the First Law, and a Great Change is coming. In the Union, a rebellion aiming for great social change in the Union and to overthrow the monarchy...the worst member? The Judge.
Who is The Judge?
A wild, insane redhead, the Judge is the head of the Burners, the counterpart to the Breakers. The Breakers wish to "break" the Union and rebuild it. The Burners mean to burn it all down. The Judge claims she got her title in the city of Keln, settling disputes between prostitutes on the docks...which is called into question, subtly, in book 3 when Judge gives different accounts for the name's origin, before admitting she really doesn't remember or know. When the Great Change kicks off, Judge leads her forces up to help seize the city of Valbeck with the Breaker leader, Superior Risinau, the two acting at the behest of a mysterious mastermind called the Weaver.
Judge's sections of the city rapidly devolve into anarchy, slaughter and chaos, with her going full on Madam DeFarge on everyone: victims are seized, and made to come through kangaroo courts where the Judge presents prostitutes in the jury, and a naked, beaten lawyer for defense...anyone who catches Judge's eye is subjected to the trials, with her always hanging her victims. One of the leads, Savine dan Glokta, is captured there and sees the Judge's insanity firsthand, with many, MANY people hanged.
Crown Prince Orso dan Luthar arrives with a host to defeat the Breakers and Burners...Judge attempts to set Valbeck ablaze in her flight and isn't seen again the end of the second book...though she plots a Burner assassination plot on Orso, blowing up part of a crowd by sabotaging an engine. The assassins fail by the presence of Yoru Sulfur, Bayaz's right hand man and an Eater himself. Following a nobles' revolt against now-King Orso, the supposed Weaver, Arch-Lecter Pike, leads the Breakers and Burners to the gates of the capital city of Adua. Orso surrenders to avoid bloodshed and is kept as a prisoner...
Judge proceeds to conduct numerous hangings, before she believes this fails to make the proper statement....so she opts for a better one; to take her prisoners to the top of the tower of Chains and throw them off. The first victims include Risinau, whom she's decided has outlived his usefulness, other nobles who'd helped them and...people for petty or nonexistent crimes, Judge declaring them guilty, having them dragged up and flung screaming to their deaths. One is a woman guilty of nothing at all, save catching Judge's eye at the wrong time.
Judge does this for months. Every day, dozens of people, hundreds are pulled and hurled over the towers. It stops mattering to Judge, who reveals herself as far saner in private than she appears. Her show trials continue constantly, and she industrializes it all over the Union, with a broad police state until she decides to put Savine on trial to lure out her father, Arch-Lector Glokta...
The ensuing crisis leads to a strike against the Burners, with Judge ending up attempting to throw Savine to her death..Savine instead grabs her and tries to throw them both over the side, but Savine is saved....while Judge plummets down the drop she'd condemned so many others to.
Heinousness?
Judge is one of the leaders of the Great Change and the head of the Burners. She's also totally human and compared to the real masterminds, Pike, Glokta and Ardee, she's...really bad. In fact, she's put in specifically for being such a complete fucking psycho who'll slaughter countless people to weaken the Union further for Savine to be able to take over (Glokta's plot. Savine has no idea about this and is horrified when she finds out)...Glokta is a serial torturer and a cruel, callous monster who forced a lesbian woman to force herself to be raped by threatening to torture her lover to death and the Great Change is all his doing, along with his wife Ardee. Redeeming qualities, they don't count.
Judge has an insane body count. She hangs loads of people, tries to burn down a city to cover her back, and the show trials and executions are just...ghastly. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people, guilty of nothing but earning her ire and attention. One of the Great Change's own generals loses a battle and Judge says he's not a traitor...but a loser is even worse, so she has him chucked to his death anyways. She doesn't like the dress you sewed? You wrote the wrong thing? Said the wrong thing? You're an innocent victim of circumstance who she looks at the wrong time? Over the edge you go.
Mitigating issues?
Judge's good intentions are...stripped away utterly. She reveals a liking for building, but she's a violent anarchist in the worst ways (I may like Joker way, not people who like to read Kropotkin) ...she's revealed to have no principles and even worse? She's actually entirely sane (well, given value of sanity), calmly expressing how much of her behavior is a show so she can burn the Union down to 'build anew.'
No, she's Ax-Crazy in the extreme here.
Conclusion?
Absolute yes.
Guys....this thread is moving way too fast. We're being very cool here, but...woah.
First of all.
to Oni. For all what I see, he legit avoids GDV in virtue of actually...talking. In fact, at this point I feel GDV is more misused that CM.
The Judge
Grega
The Countess. Weird case where all the story is known but the game is unrealeased oficially...
Omega and Judge
About the Countess, she is a minor villain and I am not really sure if all the missions of the game have been released. However, all the missions where the Countess appears have already been shown to the general public, so we know her story and her actions are bad enough by the standards of Diablo and we can discuss her imo. But I understand if some of you have concerns.
Edited by WatTambor on Sep 28th 2021 at 7:19:13 PM
Alright sounds fair.
Countess.
Think discussion is on the 1st. Though I really don't mind doing it now since people have been so ansy about it.
Edited by miraculous on Sep 28th 2021 at 8:59:55 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Cantliss
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."