During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
What does thumped mean?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Clem.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Clem
Clem
BTW, there was that image of Vandal Savage from All Star Western that was cut because it was New 52, who was going to check to see if that version counts?
Goku Black
I got bored because of the number of issues and the confusing nature of rebirth and all this stuff.
So anyone who wants it can take it?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Dude appears in like 50 or so issues. No thanks; fortunately I got an incarnation that appears pretty much only once.
Say, Mir, weren't you gonna look at Black Manta's other appearances?
Edited by ACW on Sep 27th 2021 at 11:52:15 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Moron
For what it's worth, I'm down to take New 52 Vandal if anyone wants to split - it's actually a bit more than 100 issues. I've heard there might be some disqualifying issues, but he's still worth a look if nothing else.
Aaaaaand we might as well move right along to someone with a very similar M.O.
So remember how I mentioned Booster Gold? Well, with Booster being Booster, he ends up accidentally stranding Jonah in late 21st century Gotham (given that the Mutants are hanging around, we're talking Dark Knight Returns era). After a series of adventures involving getting a girlfriend named Gina and kidnapping Jeremiah Arkham, Jonah has the displeasure of running into this random guy in issue #23, "Man Out of Time".
Who is Stanley Cooper? What does he do?
Stanley Cooper is a man who, before we meet him, lost his job and had his marriage deteriorate. In retribution for these, Stanley snaps and decides to go on a rampage. After arming himself to the teeth with submachine guns, Stanely drives his car to a breast cancer awareness march - and plows straight through the crowd as hard as he can, killing dozens of largely women and children and wounding dozens more. After making a few passes with his car to rack up as many kills as he can, Stanley parks and, revealing that he's attacking the crowd because he thinks his wife is there (we don't find out if he's accurate) gets out with his guns to mow down any survivors.
Luckily, Jonah being Jonah, he puts a bullet between Stanley's eyes.
Again, not around for long, but my god does he work fast.
Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?
It's mentioned in a news report that what sparked this rampage was losing his job alongside his marriage deteriorating... but his response to this was to massacre a crowd of completely unrelated people just because he suspects his wife is there, fully intending to kill her alongside a crowd of completely innocent people. It affords him no sympathy whatsoever - if anything, it only serves to show just how ridiculously petty he is to take so many lives for such a small reason - so I'm very much inclined to play the Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse card here.
Is he heinous enough?
Clem is steep competition, but I see no reason why they can't keep side-by-side. Stanley, while armed to the teeth, doesn't have a Gatling gun like Clem does and racks up his dozens of deaths and injuries just from running through the crowd with his car. It's mentioned that the crowd is almost entirely made of women and children (one of the injuries is an eight year old girl), and he fully intends to gun down everyone present before Jonah kills him, so their attempted kill counts are comparable and his insanely petty reason also adds an extra layer of depravity to him - at least Clem was doing it for a bank robbery, this guy's just a petty dick.
Final verdict?
I think another easy yes - what about you?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Another yes.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Emperor of Evil!
Sure to Cooper
I was gonna suggest doing 52! Vandal myself but if STAR wants to take him I'll be fine with that. 
Edited by Powermaster201 on Sep 27th 2021 at 11:56:00 AM
Professor Gigachad
Two All-Star Western ones.
I also folderized the page since it looks like we will be going past 15.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 27th 2021 at 9:07:15 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Goku Black
Stanley Cooper
Good luck with that star. His run also contains Demon Knights which might have the most jacked supernatural standard of any of the new 52. Like holy hell....
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Moron
Admittedly, I got the idea because he shows up in the book series as well and gives thousands of Gothamites rabies during his time there
to Clem Hootkins and Stanley Cooper.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Clem and Cooper
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Coop.
Rawr.
Yea to those two, and in the spirit of solidary...one of, if not my final Jonah Hex keeper. From the graphic novel Two-Gun Mojo written by none other than Joe Lansdale himself: "Doc" Cross Williams.
Who is Doc Williams?
A conman, snake oil salesman and vicious little worm of a man who learned dark arts, namely his misuse of voodoo which he uses to lobotomize poor souls after he turns them into his zombie slaves...after days of being trapped in barrels and forcefed nightmarish hallucinogens and more...the process is brutal as hell.
Williams' first victim was none other than famed lawman W Ild Bill Hickock who had humiliated Williams. Now, history being what it was, Hickock was shot in the head by a glory seeker named Jack McCall...but here? He didn't fully die and Williams claimed him to make him a slave, using him as his personal gunslinger to claim more victims when he found suitable ones- also slaughtering whoever stood in his way.
Williams begins a steady march, killing and turning as he goes, even hanging corpses over his bed at night. He kills Jonah's friend for being a witness while trying to zombify Jonah Hex himself. Jonah escapes and has to even help Williams briefly so they can survive a host of Apache warriors...but Williams betrays them and escapes, leaving his allies to die before he starts butchering his slaves to eat them in the desolate wasteland....
Williams is caught by Hex who takes out his slaves and furiously shoots Williams in the legs, keeping a promise not to kill him...but leaving him for the Apaches, to torture and finish off at their leisure.
Mitigating issues?
None. While his body count isn't the biggest, the zombie thing is a unique and godawful niche, with serial torture and even cannibalizing his slaves with him intending to sweep over and add more souls to his little circus, along with constantly killing bystanders.
Yeah, Williams sticks out nicely.
Conclusion?
Yep.
Goku Black
Doc Williams
Professor Gigachad
Williams, where does this guy go on the page?
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 27th 2021 at 11:50:12 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Yes to Doc Williams
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Williams.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Lighty can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think at the top of the Post-Crisis folder (it was written in 1993).
Edited by ACW on Sep 27th 2021 at 2:57:25 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Izual, Clem, Stanley and Williams
Any more votes on my Falla Cii quote?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Quote's okay. May work better for To the Pain.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Alrighty, I guess lets get this show on the road. I don't know quite where to start with this, so I'm gonna knock out the three most heinous baddies out in chronological order.
What is the work?
All-Star Western is the New 52 reboot of Jonah Hex. It completely retools everything we know about the outlaw, exchanging the Villain of the Week style in the Old West with a City Noir setting with an Arc Villain structure. For the most part, he's in Gotham City palling around with Amadeus Arkham and Tallulah Black, but soon enough, he ends up in the Old West once more chumming around with Booster Gold of all people.
The comic is all over the place, just roll with it.
For now, we're looking at issue #19, "Panning for Gold".
Who is Clem Hootkins? What does he do?
Clem Hootkins is a prominent outlaw who rolls up in the Red River Junction one day. When he gets there, he asks a random man if any lawmen happen to be present, and after putting up a polite facade, as soon as he knows that no lawmen are present, he executes the man on the spot then tells his gang to open fire on the town. One of his guys then takes a Gatling gun and begins massacring everyone in sight, killing pretty much everyone in town.
Clem then walks into the bank and executes all the guards inside, then rolls right in and steals all the gold. Gloating that he's reduced a town of a population of 300 or so to 0 (and implying that he's done so before, though we later find out he didn't quite kill everyone), he then leaves the town with his gold. Luckily, though, karma comes fast, and by the beginning of the next issue, he ends up captured by a group of Natives who then ritualistically kill him.
Not exactly long, but hey, he's not around long.
Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?
Given that he massacres a town just to cover for a bank heist, I don't think I need to dwell on the fact that the long and short answer is no.
Is he heinous enough?
In the span of about five pages, he massacres an entire town just to cover for a bank robbery, with himself estimating the casualties at around 300 before he blows up the bank to cover his escape. This dude jacks the standard.
Final verdict?
An easy keeper, with several more to come - what about you?