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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#280176: Sep 21st 2021 at 12:19:27 PM

[tup] to The Demon and Tyler.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#280178: Sep 21st 2021 at 12:27:11 PM

Yes to Tyler. Is this the original 90s story; the 2007 version; or both?

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#280179: Sep 21st 2021 at 12:27:36 PM

Hey, everyone. Sorry I was gone- took a break from the thread to play Psychonauts 2 without spoilers.

But I do have some characters I would like to vote for (man, the things you miss when you're away).

So, *deep breath*

First, abstain on the Psychonauts 2 villain because I still haven't beaten the game and don't want spoilers.

As for the others:

[tup] Dylan, Tenebrae duo, Glaurung, Loc-nar, Tyler, Harime, Rebecca and Scarlet, other Rebecca and Sam, Loriellidere, Witch of the Dark (was wondering if she was a keeper) and Zero, Sturm, Ankhsar and Riku, Oybek, The Entity/Mr. Hoppnote , Damon (it only took a decade and a half for this series to get a keeper), Morisette, Thesion and Horen, Emperor Ireid (would never have imagined this series getting a keeper), and Cash Money.

As for the Demon... I'm leaning yes, but don't we have a rule that cult propaganda isn't allowed?

Edited by MasterN on Sep 21st 2021 at 12:30:42 PM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#280180: Sep 21st 2021 at 12:28:55 PM

  • Inazuma Eleven Go Galaxy: Ireid Orbes is the first ruler of Faram Orbius, whose evil is still felt centuries after his death. During his rule, Ireid started countless wars to steal the resources of his enemies, with planets like Ixal being obliterated by his fleet. Ireid also tries to mold his son Arculus into a ruthless strategist, criticizing him for caring for their loyal soldiers, which Ireid considers a expendable resource to be sacrificed. When the Queen is caught in a battle, Ireid coldly orders his son to left her to die and when Arculus refuses to obey, Ireid tries to murder his own son, considering him a failure.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 21st 2021 at 2:30:55 PM

Watch me destroying my country
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#280181: Sep 21st 2021 at 12:32:38 PM

[up][up]Actually, that's what made me hesitant to vote at first before deciding to say yes. Would this fall under propaganda or no?

Edited by nwotyzal on Sep 21st 2021 at 12:34:59 PM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#280182: Sep 21st 2021 at 12:34:09 PM

Oh wait yeah that is true I remember we downvoted Xenu for that reason, didn't think of that.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 21st 2021 at 12:37:04 PM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#280183: Sep 21st 2021 at 12:35:54 PM

I mean, it looks like it was created by the group, but as far as I can tell it doesn't seem like it's meant to be indicative of their teachings - it's just "anime meets a shit ton of different religions"

DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#280184: Sep 21st 2021 at 12:36:06 PM

[tup] to Cash, Demon, Mr. X, Tyler and Ireid.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#280185: Sep 21st 2021 at 12:41:28 PM

Based on what I'm seeing, it sounds closer to Terl than Xenu, it's a story promoting the views but it isn't outright propaganda from what I can tell

Edited by papyru30 on Sep 21st 2021 at 1:41:46 PM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#280187: Sep 21st 2021 at 12:45:36 PM

If propaganda was an issue I would have said so. It was produced in part by a founder of a culty religion but it's a standalone story that's exactly what STAR described, just anime meets a bunch of weird religious all mish-mashed with some beliefs of the producer injected. Let's give me a bit more credit than this, this is a movie about a demon leading a Nazi iconography government with alien technology and T-Rex aliens trying to invade the planet. It's got heavyhanded religious wackadoo shit but it's not propaganda flick.

'Yes' to Lord Tyler, good job!

Edited by Ravok on Sep 21st 2021 at 12:49:30 PM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#280189: Sep 21st 2021 at 12:57:11 PM

Alright in that case I will stick with my [tup].

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#280190: Sep 21st 2021 at 1:01:23 PM

I didn't mean to question you, Ravok, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. Truth be told, I always trust your EPs and I figured you had a good reason to EP this, but I didn't want to fall into the "big three" mentality of always assuming Lighty, Scraggle, and your EPs are gospel. So that's why I asked the question.

Now, I'll happily give a [tup] to the Demon T-Rex thing (I'm assuming it has at least some connection to the T-Rex aliens?)

Edited by MasterN on Sep 21st 2021 at 1:03:51 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#280191: Sep 21st 2021 at 1:06:33 PM

People can question me and anyone else and that's fine, nowhere was implying that wasn't allowed, was simply saying that it was a question that, I can assure everyone, would have been addressed in the effortpost if I felt it was an issue. It isn't a case of Xenu where the film is portrayed as an actual depiction of what "Happy Science" thinks reality is, the film took cues from the religion but Nazi demons making weapons that create 400,000 times more powerful suns to blow up Earth and pave the way for T-Rexes to invade isn't something that screams "propaganda, join our religion". Far more Battlefield Earth.

And no, the T-Rex aliens are a total Outside-Context Problem who just want to take advantage of the Earth about to get blown up so they can violate an intergalactic treaty and invade the planet, lmao, fuckin' Star Wars shit.

Edited by Ravok on Sep 21st 2021 at 1:07:57 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#280192: Sep 21st 2021 at 1:17:15 PM

I understand. Though I'm pretty sure there really are cults crazy enough to believe in things like Nazi demons and alien T-Rexes- I've read up on a lot of cults, so nothing surprises me. I mean, Scientology's explanation for the origin of humanity is only somewhat less insane than the plot of this anime.

Edited by MasterN on Sep 21st 2021 at 1:22:44 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#280193: Sep 21st 2021 at 1:28:18 PM

That isn't even close to the craziest thing I have seen a cult believe (not kidding).

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#280194: Sep 21st 2021 at 1:28:39 PM

"the anime injects teachings and religious viewpoints of several different religions from Buddhism to Christianity, mooshes them altogether and creates...something." Guys I think we're fine here... let's make sure we're actually informed on the basis for which we're deeming something just propaganda.

Yes to Tyler and the Demon.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#280195: Sep 21st 2021 at 1:40:15 PM

Btw who wants to grab the upcoming Foundation tv series with me? Jared Harris, Lee Pace and Isaac Asimov is a combo I gotta look into, lol, so anyone looking forward to that show as well lmk!

Edited by Ravok on Sep 21st 2021 at 1:40:26 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#280197: Sep 21st 2021 at 1:41:36 PM

Does anyone count in the original books?

Im actually not sure we have anyone from Isaac Asamoiv yet?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#280198: Sep 21st 2021 at 2:12:25 PM

[up][up] Sweet! Got us down!

[up] I'll have to do a recheck of the novels, the most notable antagonist the Mule gets redeemed but there might be someone buried in those novels worth discussion.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#280199: Sep 21st 2021 at 2:12:55 PM

[tup] Demon (this movie is one of the worst cases of Trailers Always Lie, bruh) and Tyler.

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#280200: Sep 21st 2021 at 2:13:21 PM

[tup] Demon. I will note that this film was created by a cult with rather questionable views, but that's a story for another thread.

However we've upvoted the Communist Leader from New Deal Coalition Retained, which was a work that was suspected of having questionable biases, so I think as long as not offensive or laden with racist sterotypes, and if the qualifier can stand out as really evil even when said biases is stripped out.

Edited by xie323 on Sep 21st 2021 at 2:18:26 AM


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