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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#27876: Jul 20th 2014 at 6:47:22 PM

She ends up as responsible for everyone else's crimes. She possesses or influences/manipulates people to murder innocent people, and she's done so for centuries

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#27878: Jul 20th 2014 at 7:44:48 PM

half of the posts in this thread should not be devoted to this, ACW. Check historical villain upgrade.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#27879: Jul 20th 2014 at 8:56:49 PM

Abigail Williams from a video game.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#27880: Jul 21st 2014 at 6:27:15 AM

[up]Wasn't talking about her.
27877: I suggest getting rid of the "who" in the first sentence.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#27881: Jul 21st 2014 at 4:42:11 PM

[tup] on Steele. While he may not directly kill anyone, if he prevented Balto from delivering that medicine, he would have caused many children to die. That's what I've heard of anyway.

Where do I go to request an example be cut? The example is Rainbow Dash from Rainbow Factory due to questionable moral agency and it's her job. She doesn't really have much of a choice.

We need to fix the search feature. It's hard to find discussion of certain examples. I can only remember Steele being mentioned as a "No" in passing by Footsteps I think.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#27882: Jul 21st 2014 at 4:54:00 PM

What was Footstep's reasoning? Also, you go here if you want to make a request on a locked page. Also, was the Xenu example a tidbit too controversial to talk about?

edited 21st Jul '14 4:57:08 PM by AustinDR

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#27883: Jul 21st 2014 at 6:09:34 PM

[up][up] Well, she's the manager, and could probably quit any time she wanted to. I do agr that her moral agcy is quistonable though, due to her being insane.

jjj
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#27884: Jul 21st 2014 at 7:00:04 PM

But is she too insane to count?

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#27885: Jul 21st 2014 at 7:11:32 PM

Discussing Steele from Balto? He's an odd case that, for most of the film, he's not a character I'd ever consider a Complete Monster: just a Jerkass. Then he does that big action in question - he tries to make Balto and his team lose their path despite knowing full well that the cargo they're carrying is medicine for sick, dying children. But he doesn't care because his pride was wounded and he wants payback. Worse, when he comes back to the dogs in the village, he acknowledges the fact that he didn't make it back with the medicine so now all the children will die, and uses that very fact to play up his tragedy so that more sympathy is garnered for him. So he attempted murder on his fellow dogs, knowingly condemned children to die out of spite for what happened between him and the dogs, and paints himself as a tragic hero who failed to save all those kids while they're all suffering because of him. He never showcased any redeeming qualities before, and if we add that despicable action with the petty motives, then I'd actually give him a [tup].

edited 21st Jul '14 7:15:31 PM by ANewMan

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#27886: Jul 21st 2014 at 7:31:51 PM

that reminds me..

  • Streets Of Glory by Garth Ennis: Red Crow is an Ax-Crazy Apache warrior, well known for his love of, and talent for, Cold-Blooded Torture. The hero, Retired Badass Colonel Joe Dunn, recalls Red Crow's vicious rampages in flashbacks that reveal the man carving the guts out of his victims with a huge Slasher Smile. When he resurfaces at the end of the 19th century, Red Crow announces himself by abducting a man, chopping off his fingers, cutting off his manhood and stuffing it in his mouth before sewing his lips shut and letting him wander back into town. when Dunn and his team set off after Red Crow, Red Crow gleefully scalps a member of their party before slaughtering every other man besides Dunn and his young protege, avoiding killing them immediately so he can torture them to death later. When mortally wounded, Red Crow refuses to subject himself to any human laws and opts to hurl himself off a cliff, laughing the whole way down.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#27888: Jul 21st 2014 at 7:37:37 PM

Steele was removed for simply being a Jerkass, by Krystoff according to this page: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=274

Really when he does that MEH crossing, he went beyond being a Jerkass and moved up to being an irredeemable douche. I'd like to see someone make a rewrite of him if he gets enough votes.

sanfranman91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#27889: Jul 21st 2014 at 7:42:53 PM

Lighty: Yep, I can cook up an Abigail Williams entry for ya. I'm going to get my next round of KR effortposts up first but I'll take a break from Kamen Rider afterwards to get an entry up for her.

Scraggle: Unless anyone else has anything to add to your draft for Koba on post 27659, then I think he's a done deal. Feel free to add it to the edit requests list whenever you're ready.

In the meantime, we currently have 2 [tup] and no [tdown] for both Colonel Zol and Daguva so far. Any more votes for either character? See posts 27875 and 27878 for details on both villains' crimes.

edited 21st Jul '14 7:44:08 PM by sanfranman91

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#27890: Jul 21st 2014 at 7:43:29 PM

I guess he considered children possibly dying from sickness to be a case of jerkassery rather than true evil. I will also make the writeup for Steele if he does get enough votes. [tup] for Steele as well.

Eh, what am I supposed to be seeing, Sanfran? I can't see anything from the link that you gave. Never mind, I can see them now. Zol sounds pretty bad.

edited 21st Jul '14 7:50:23 PM by AustinDR

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#27892: Jul 21st 2014 at 8:07:11 PM

I forget, but was Dark Matter from Kirby ever discussed? On paper, he seems like he'd qualify, but to me it feels like he doesn't do enough.

I kind of wish a moderator would come on so they could add Von Karma and Phantom to the Definitely a CM list as well as Tirek and Obito to the never again definitely not a CM list.

Also I haven't seen Legend of Korra but is Amon Yakone and if not, who is Yakone? I know he was rejected and is on the never again list, but I'd just like this cleared up.

edited 21st Jul '14 8:07:50 PM by Klavice

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#27893: Jul 21st 2014 at 8:09:27 PM

[up] Yakone is Amon's abusive father and the show's Predecessor Villain.

doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#27894: Jul 21st 2014 at 8:10:12 PM

[up][up] Obito and Tirek don't really need to be on there since as I understand it, it's for people who keep getting brought up again and again and they haven't since a decision was made.

edited 21st Jul '14 8:10:36 PM by doineedaname

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#27895: Jul 21st 2014 at 8:10:36 PM

[tup]For Hendricksen and the Clairvoyant.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#27896: Jul 21st 2014 at 8:10:47 PM

Yakone was Amon's father. He was disqualified, because he was allegedly remorseful when said son left him. However, I don't entirely buy it. After all, he was pretty much just using his son in order to get revenge on the Avatar for wronging him.

I think we decided to wait on G4!Tirek.

edited 21st Jul '14 8:11:40 PM by AustinDR

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#27897: Jul 21st 2014 at 8:15:23 PM

No, we decided that Tirek's arc was done.

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#27898: Jul 21st 2014 at 8:25:59 PM

Also, [tup]Colonel Zol and N-Daguva-Zeba.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#27899: Jul 21st 2014 at 8:26:36 PM

Oh, we did? I thought we said something about the possibility of him coming back? It's been a while.

Also, I requested for Koba's addition to Monster.Film

edited 21st Jul '14 9:11:32 PM by AustinDR

Animeking1108 Since: Jan, 2010
#27900: Jul 21st 2014 at 9:48:23 PM

Does Scarlett from Total Drama in the Western Animation page count? In a confessional, she proudly admitted to rigging her brother's toys to attack him for six years, putting him in therapy. All because he pulled her hair. When she finally reveals herself as a villain, she holds the Island up for ransom, and sets it to self destruct. She was fully willing to kill her fellow contestants, and it was lightly implied that she would have just left them to die anyway by boarding an escape pod.

Another example would be Torstyn from the Michael Vey series in the Literature page. His Establishing Character Moment is using his powers (basically, he's a human microwave) to fry a tank of fish For the Evulz. He has often threatened to kill his fellow Glows and would have carried them out if not for Dr. Hatch's intervention. While Quentin and Tara nearly vomited while watching the electric rats devour a live bull, Torstyn was not only entertained by it, but looked forward to seeing the guard Hatch ordered to be devoured next.


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