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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ClownPrince47 Since: Sep, 2016
#278751: Sep 11th 2021 at 3:03:18 PM

[tup] for Noah.

I have to step out, but if Shino's mom gets approved while I'm gone, let me know and I'll put the write-up in when I can.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Sterok Since: Apr, 2012
#278754: Sep 11th 2021 at 4:12:15 PM

I don't have a problem with Mizusaki myself and doubt the last two episodes will change that she's one of these, but Shino does still have a few backstory beats unexplained, so we should probably hold off on putting her up. Just in case some new information comes up.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#278755: Sep 11th 2021 at 5:23:01 PM

[tup] Noah and Shino’s mom.

Edited by YobabyColin on Sep 11th 2021 at 10:20:25 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#278756: Sep 11th 2021 at 5:41:52 PM

[tup] Noah and the Mother

How about we return to Oz for a moment?

Who is he? Yuri Kosygin is a quiet and seemingly harmless Cossack who is gradually shown to be the most dangerous lifer in all of Oz despite his position as a minor antagonist in the grand scheme of things. A living example of From Nobody to Nightmare, Kosygin was once an honest teacher from Moscow who fled the recently-dissolved Soviet Union to find a better for him and his wife in the United States. Growing disillusioned with the American Dream, Kosygin began working as a simple painter for Leonid Roginsky, a mob boss belonging to a feared group known as the Organizatse... Until one day, Roginsky made the unwise to decision to kick Kosygin in front of his wife, the not-so-innocent Kosygin then lost control over himself and strangled his boss to death on the spot, apathetic to the fact that his wife was watching everything. Instead of punishing Kosygin for killing one of their high-ranking members, the Organizatse was impressed with his Blood Knight tendencies and recruited him. No longer the pathetic and unlucky man from before, Kosygin quickly gained a reputation for being "the most brutal hitman in Little Odessa", and he enjoyed every second of it.

Before arriving in Oz, Kosygin armed himself with an Uzi and shot up a restaurant to kill a single target, the drive-by that he was caught for not only killed his target but also seven other people. Transferred to Emerald City, Kosygin returned to his old habits and murdered one of the Christian inmates for the leader of the Irish gang, using his own sharp glasses as an improvised weapon to kill his target. Learning that his only acquaintance in Oz—another Russian inmate by the name of Nikolai Stanislofsky—snitched on him under the suspicion that Kosygin was sent to Oz to silence him, Kosygin proves him right by meticuously waiting for Stanislofsky in an empty room and trying to stab him with his glasses, all while sadistically recounting his life story, how he initially felt guilty for killing Roginsky but got a taste for murder with each hit and how Stanislofsky now has the honor of being his 50th victim. Stanislofsky barely manages to survive and Kosygin and is sent to solitary confinement, where he is disposed of by a visiting "state department employee" in a deleted scene.

Heinous? I initially believed he wouldn't count because of issues with Offscreen Villainy, but he has the highest confirmed bodycount in the show and the flashback to back it up—thanks for reminding me, ACW—so I guess we're okay in this department?

Mitigating Qualities? The elephant in the room: his wife. We never get to see her in person and Kosygin doesn't make any attempts to call her from prison when it's standard procedure for inmates to contact their loved ones. As a matter of fact, Kosygin only remembers her existence when he's frightening Stanislofsky into submission, and he wasn't afraid to commit his first murder in front of her because an Asshole Victim embarassed him, which comes off more as a twisted sense of masculinity rathan than genuine love for her. And then there is this:

  • Freudian Excuse: He used to be a law-abiding professor, until he was fired and forced to work as a servant for a cruel and abusive member of the Mafiya. Eventually, he snapped and murdered the man, leaving him branded as a murderer, forcing him to become a hitman.

That is... Not true at all, Kosygin himself explictly states that he was hired by the Organizatse to commit a second murder after his killing of Roginsky, and he simply went along with it again and again for the sake of It Gets Easier.

Conclusion? Leaning [tup]

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Sep 11th 2021 at 1:02:17 PM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ClownPrince47 Since: Sep, 2016
#278760: Sep 11th 2021 at 6:00:48 PM

[tup] for Kosygin

Also, here's my write-up.

  • Blue Reflection Ray: Shino Mizusaki's mother was the leader of the Saint Inés Religion and abusive to both her and her twin sister Kano. She used them as the figurehead of her movement to eliminate the weak people of society (i.e., the sick, poor, elderly, and uneducated). However, she forced Kano to be Shino, denying her a sense of self and beating her whenever she acknowledged herself as an individual. Whenever Shino made a mistake, she would beat Kano in her place, saying that her mistakes are why her sister is suffering. Eventually, this culminated in her performing a ritual to make Shino a true god by draining Kano's blood and force-feeding it to Shino. Her actions are in part what led to Shino's current misanthropy.

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#278761: Sep 11th 2021 at 6:02:44 PM

Yes to Noah, Shino's mom, Kosy

NattesNovgrel from The Middle of Misery, South of Iowa Since: Apr, 2020
#278762: Sep 11th 2021 at 6:23:37 PM

I’m leaning no on Kosygin honestly, it doesn’t really sound like it undoes any potential love for his wife like other examples who count do.

Edited by NattesNovgrel on Sep 11th 2021 at 8:24:03 AM

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#278763: Sep 11th 2021 at 6:25:51 PM

Yes to Noah, Mother and Kosygin.

Is this image of Sir Ram clear enough or is it too vague?

[1]

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#278764: Sep 11th 2021 at 6:28:13 PM

[up] Doesn’t look heinous enough.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#278765: Sep 11th 2021 at 6:40:15 PM

Abstain on Kosy.

TBNY (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#278766: Sep 11th 2021 at 6:45:42 PM

Has Fifteen Minutes ever been mentioned as a potential write-up? I recall the villain Emil Slovak being evil as hell, taking great joy in the murders that are being filmed in his favor.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#278767: Sep 11th 2021 at 6:54:07 PM

Yes to Kosygin. Just watched Kate and saw it isn’t marked in discussion. Lemme grab that.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#278769: Sep 11th 2021 at 7:29:26 PM

Kosygin seems like a yes. You have one more potential, right?

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#278770: Sep 11th 2021 at 7:32:48 PM

[tup] Lew, Father Noah, and Mizusaki, pending her possibly returning.

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#278771: Sep 11th 2021 at 7:43:20 PM

Getting Ivan out of the way:

  • No Dead Heroes: General Ivan Dimanovitch is introduced as the Torture Technician of a VietCong base, taking pleasure in tormenting captured American and South Vietnamese captives, gleefully abusing prisoners, beating captives to death with his bare hands and ripping out an American POW's fingernails with pliers. After the botched POW rescue mission in the Action Prologue where Ivan captured William Sanders' best friend Harry Cotter, a Time Skip that follows a decade later reveals that Ivan had Harry converted into his personal killing machine via microchip in the brain, whose effectiveness Ivan executes firstly by sending Harry back to America to execute his entire family, and later on controlling Harry into firing an Uzi in a church full of people, slaughtering everyone. Using Harry as pawn for covert assassination assignments, Ivan intends to frame the CIA for the murders while overthrowing entire governments for him to reshape the world in his own image, and when William gets captured trying to stop Ivan, Ivan had William's Love Interest Barbara subjected to being raped while William is forced to listen.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#278772: Sep 11th 2021 at 7:45:30 PM

@Overlord

Do we see what happens right afterwards with the Kid? Maybe just combine the 2.

Bow to the Prototype
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#278773: Sep 11th 2021 at 8:22:19 PM

[up] The kid is covered in bandages after Sir Ram is done with him (in fact he is now made of bandages and can kinda shapeshift his body to easily escape or fit into tight spaces). There is a brief flashback of the kid screaming.

This is what he looked like after the experiments:

[1]

Edited by Overlord on Sep 11th 2021 at 8:36:38 AM

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#278774: Sep 11th 2021 at 8:48:28 PM

[tup] to General Ivan Dimanovitch, Lewis “Lew” Orlander, Father Noah Morissette, Shino Mizusaki's mother, and Yuri Kosygin. A more tentative one to Nui Harime as well.

@TNBY: Couldn't find a discussion on it, but the film was mentioned here.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#278775: Sep 11th 2021 at 8:50:53 PM

@ACW I actually have two, one potential and one I'm more than sure will count.


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