TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#277626: Sep 1st 2021 at 7:13:57 PM

[tup] to Gothmog.

Edited by G-Editor on Sep 1st 2021 at 10:14:38 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#277628: Sep 1st 2021 at 7:17:19 PM

Yes to Gothmog.

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#277629: Sep 1st 2021 at 7:19:55 PM

[tup] Gothmog

It's rather intresting how the vast majority of our LOTR keepers are from the films and the games and the literacy series will likely have no more than Sauron, Morgoth and Ar-Pharzon

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#277631: Sep 1st 2021 at 7:34:26 PM

That's a [tup] to Gothmog. Basically the Phasma of LOTR. Haha.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#277632: Sep 1st 2021 at 7:38:27 PM

[tup] to Gothmog, when I saw the name I actually thought it was th Balrog dude.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#277633: Sep 1st 2021 at 7:39:38 PM

Yes to tumor face but I did find myself questioning of Lockdown. I'm not a fan of the franchise or film series but if there's more to talk about on heinousness I'd rather hear it so Lockdown doesn't wind up jumping on and off the trope at random.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#277635: Sep 1st 2021 at 7:44:54 PM

[tup]Palmer, Handel, & the orc that looks like an evil Sloth

hold off on Lockdown.

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#277637: Sep 1st 2021 at 7:52:49 PM

Happy 'Yes' to Gothmog, I'll go either way on Lockdown, he's a major proponent and the sole reason some of Attinger's plans to come pass but he also is still a hulking giant robot who's surpassed in his own movie in intended bodycount by another hulking giant robot in the form of Galvatron. Him being a (mostly) loner and his high personal bodycount may save him, but Galvatron's presence and Attinger basically matching him in acts blow for blow makes it tougher.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#277638: Sep 1st 2021 at 7:57:23 PM

Yes to Gothmog and a very late yes to Film Sauron. Small correction though, Gothmog, the lieutenant of Morgul actually is a minor character in the book, but is only mentioned in passing. It's not even specified what his species is.

Cutegirl920fire Player 222 from the Squid Games (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: Paris holds the key to my heart
Player 222
#277639: Sep 1st 2021 at 8:07:34 PM

[tup] Gothmog

CG for short
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#277640: Sep 1st 2021 at 8:10:13 PM

Yeah Ravok is touching on my concerns well. IF he makes it, it’s the bare minimum for heinousness. He’s not a human like Attinger and from my understanding, debatably isn’t enough extremely awful for what he is. He might collaborate but I’m not sure his level of resources make it easy enough for him to stand out. Let’s really think this one through, this was all done in good faith but a drive and almost want for more Transformers characters seems to have popped up and I worry that may be clouding judgement. He’s had to be cut before, let’s be thorough.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#277642: Sep 1st 2021 at 8:21:14 PM

Yes to Kim, Gothmog, Fabrizio, Mxy, and Lenny

Abstain on Lockdown.

Keep Attinger.

Here is my write up for Vohaul:

Edited by Overlord on Sep 1st 2021 at 8:23:30 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#277643: Sep 1st 2021 at 8:21:48 PM

Yeah Gothmog; sure to Lockdown taking everything into consideration.

ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#277645: Sep 1st 2021 at 8:33:13 PM

Here's that second EP for tonight—another Zenescope Entertainment one. This one is a horror story, but like Black Sable it's not part of the Grimm-verse. The setting is Paradise Court, a five-issue comic miniseries about a classic Town with a Dark Secret...

Who is Marshall? What has he done?

Marshall is the architect, developer and founder of Paradise Court, an exclusive gated community in northern New Mexico. Marshall seems to be an affable Cool Old Guy at first, until the five college-aged men and women who receive an invitation from here begin to go missing. And there's a serial killer wearing a ram's head on the loose...

Well, the Ram's Head Killer isn't Marshall himself. But he is the killer's boss; see, Marshall is the leader of the cult operating within Paradise Court. For quite some time Marshall has been luring innocent young men and women to Paradise Court, where he has his followers enact all manners of Cruel and Unusual Death while Marshall watches from the sidelines, all so he and his cult can bathe in the blood of their victims as a form of rejuvenating immortality.

Marshall fakes his own death while his followers torture-murder their way through our five protagonists. When one of Marshall's more remorseful followers tries to warn the survivors away, Marshall has him murdered, musing on how he isn't worthy on their gift of immortality. And hey, because this is Zenescope, there's a total downer ending. Marshall ends the comic by killing all the heroes, completing his blood sacrifice, and luring in a new batch of victims. Marshall is a total Karma Houdini, closing the final panel reminiscing over a terrifying long collection of security recordings capturing the death of previous victims...

Any mitigating factors?

Not one. Marshall's stated motive for his power is "I'm superior to humanity and deserve to live forever while the rest of you rot, fuck you." He sets the standard of his own comic, and he's responsible for quite the volume of death. Newspaper clippings put his body count at around a dozen, but the amount of bones beneath Paradise Court and the amount of security recordings amount to a victim count comfortably settling at multiple dozens.

Conclusion?

Plain and simple keep.

Edited by Scraggle on Sep 1st 2021 at 9:36:26 AM

Cutegirl920fire Player 222 from the Squid Games (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: Paris holds the key to my heart
Player 222
#277646: Sep 1st 2021 at 8:34:23 PM

[tup] Marshall.

CG for short
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#277649: Sep 1st 2021 at 8:41:09 PM

Yes to Kim, Marshall, Fabrizio, Lenny, and Mix and Picks. Yes to Lockdown as well I think.

Let's get this over with. Not wanting to start this whole argument again but gotta give my own personal opinion

I will say no to Gothmog on the grounds that I still genuinely believe Tolkien orcs do not have agency. I see them as creatures twisted into vile and evil forms from Elves by Morgoth and that orcs are mentally driven to hate and evil akin to say...goblins from Goblins Slayer. I don't think an orc can ever choose to be good and I'm going to assume that unless an adaptation, such as Shadow of Mordor, explicitly proves otherwise. Again, I don't want to bog us down with another extended argument, but here's my personal opinion on the matter.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#277650: Sep 1st 2021 at 8:47:10 PM

[tup] Gothmog, Peter and Jacob, Kim, and Marshall

Edited by Mediawatcher on Sep 1st 2021 at 8:47:37 AM


Total posts: 326,048
Top