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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

CaptainPinkiePie from Equestria with love Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Brony
#277576: Sep 1st 2021 at 2:18:11 PM

[tup]Lenny.

Keep Attinger.

Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#277577: Sep 1st 2021 at 2:29:27 PM

Please add the rewrites to the Drafts.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#277578: Sep 1st 2021 at 2:36:29 PM

[tup] Fabrizio, Mxy and Lenny

Keep Attinger

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#277579: Sep 1st 2021 at 2:47:26 PM

I added Attinger but I'd definitely like more thoughts on it before we solidify it as the new entry. Snoke has some additions he wants to suggest as well, so let's see those.

Edited by Ravok on Sep 1st 2021 at 2:50:57 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#277580: Sep 1st 2021 at 3:02:58 PM

Keep Attinger and a [tup] for his rewrite

Also [tup] Lenny from Guy Richie’s 2008 comeback attempt.

It's Spooky Month!
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#277581: Sep 1st 2021 at 3:09:17 PM

Here's what I came up with discussing it with Ravok over DM.

Felt that bit about what exactly happens to the Transformers could be expanded, and that thw 'Regardless of Faction' Thing was still noteworthy, it's made clear that KSI sans Joshua had no clue they were taking apart the Corpses of innocent war Heroes and thought Attinger was just giving them defeated Decepticons.

  • Harold Attinger is a cold, calculating CIA operative who creates "Cemetery Wind" under the guise of protecting Earth. In truth, Attinger Allies with Lockdown in secretly tracking down and butchering countless Transformers across Earth regardless of Faction and having them given to KSI, where there Corpses dissolved and used to Build Mindless slaves, having killed enough to make an entire army. Callous to the lives of innocents and even his own men, Attinger threatens the teenage daughter of Cade Yeager for information, unleashes Galvatron onto a populated area and shrugs off lives lost, and orders Lockdown to go all-out in destroying Optimus Prime, which leads to copious death and destruction through Hong Kong. Planning to use the Cybertronian seed create a new breed of Transformers who will be immediately enslaved as war machines, Attinger then tries to murder his business partner and other innocents for crossing him. Attinger claims to want the best for America, but soon enough reveals his true colors of a greedy sociopath who will endanger countless lives to satisfy his privileged, hateful rhetoric against any life that isn't his own.

Speaking of this Film....

Whats the work?

Transformers:Age of extinction is the 4th film in the Transformers film series by Michael Bay, having came out in 2014. Taking place Years after the Battle of Chicago, the Autobots are now being Hunted by the Nefarious Govermant orginization "Semetary Wind", having Transformers killed regardless of Faction for his own Purposes. With the assistance of one of the Films Main Villains...

Who Is Lockdown?

A Bounty Hunter who has explored the galaxy, Comandeering a Ship once belonging to the 'Knights of Cybertron' and making it his own Personal Prison, using it to hold many specimen he captured through the galaxy. He would also kill many Cybertronians across his Bounty hunting Career, having there Corpses thrown in the Ships Dump where they were torn to pieces. At some point he was hired by 'The Creators' To travel to earth and Bring them Optimus Prime, Whilst there he made an Alliance with high ranking CIA Opertive Harold Attinger, becoming his 'Asset'. There alliance was that he would help Semetary Wind with hunting and Killing Transformers as Lockdown hunted prime, being introduced in the Film proper helping them take down Ratchet, before asking Ratchet where Prime was, Brutally ripping Ratchets Spark out when he Refuses.

Later on he helps with the Semetary Wind Hunt in Texas for Prime himself, destroying The Yeager house with Missiles and engaging in a Brief fight with Optimus. When the Humans come close to escaping he throws out a deadly Alien bomb to kill them, failing with most Accept for Cades employee Lucas, who is horribly Killed by the Grenade, his Skin being blown off as his remains are just left standing as a bunch of Burnt flesh and bone.

Much later, Lockdown returns after the Autobots failed raid on KSI headquarters whilst they were fighting Galvatron. Lockdown being able to Incapacitate Prime, before explaining that he was Hired by Primes 'Creators' and that they wanted him back. He uses a Net to restrain prime and pull him to the Ship, unwittingly bringing Cades daughter Tessa aboard as well, ordering that she be taken to the Trash section of the Ship, where she's nearly killed. He explains how he Comandeered the Knights ship for his own use, Optimus saying he 'Disgraced' It, he has Optimus put in a Cage before giving Semetary Wind a 'Seed', as was there deal, before he attempts to leave Earth, the Autobots however had gotten onto the Ship and rescued Optimus, with them detaching a Section of the Ship, managing to leave so Lockdown didn't realize they were gone til he was in space, once he Does Notice, he travels back to earth, contacting Harold before being told what happned, being given the Go to do 'Whatever he had to', wich Lockdown intended to. Locking onto the Seeds location and Traveling to Hong Kong, he uses his ship to begin Wrecking the City, using a Giant Magnet function on his ship to have vast ammounts of things ripped from the Ground before being pushed back downwards. Destroying Numerous Ships, buildings, vehicles and causing other Destruction.

Finally he's able to Reach Optimus himself location, jumping out of the Ship and beginning his Final Fight with him, when Optimus stops focusing on Lockdown to kill Attinger and save Cade, he angrily impales Optimus into a Water Tower, disgusted that prime 'Saved a Human instead of saving himself', saying he brought shame to them all. Cade and the Other Autobots get involved in the Fight with Lockdown, lockdown saying how he would kill all of them, and then attempting to kill Cade, shouting "You see my face your life is Done!". But Tessa and her boyfriend are able to Free Optimus, with Prime charging to Lockdown and stabbing him through his chest, before pulling upwards and slicing Lockdowns head in half, killing the Bounty Hunter once and for all.

Heinousness?

The reason he was D Qed before, the initial big Crime he supposedly had, giving Semetary Wind the Seed supposedly so it could wipe out most life on earth, wasn't accurate to the Film….

Thing is? Looking at the Rapsheet he does Have….I actually think there's enough with there alone.

On a Rewatch...He basically does the stuff Attinger does, he participated in the Autobot hunts, and is indicated To be the reason Sematary Wind has been successful as they were. When prime explains Humans were hunting them saying they were 'Not alone', and he's the one who actually wrecks Hong Kong when Attinger gives him the Go. Destroying several buildings, Ships, Trains, ETC.

In addition to that? Lockdown has a Fair amount of personal stuff, from the Horrific way he Kills Lucas(https://youtu.be/yg-E44DsfVE), to Nearly having a Teenage girl Ripped apart(He directly orders that she be taken to the Dump where that Happens instead of her just being in the Car when it's taken there like I remembered) And I think he sets a Pattern of killing in his Bounty Hunting Career, in said Dump? We see a bunch of cybertronian Body parts, and a Corpse the Dump bots start tearing to pieces.

For his Tier? Where he seems to be one of the Less powerful Cybertronian baddies? Id say he passes.

Mitigating Factors?

Not really, he occasionally Makes Knight Templar-ish claims of 'Cleaning up' Autobots and Decepticons mess from there Constant fighting, putting 'Balance' And such, but it's not quite given Full WIE. He's a mercenary who enjoys 'The Hunt' and some of his Dialogue leans more towards Fantastic Racism, him saying that Optimus was disrupting the Balance by 'Mixing the Races' and that he was Designed to do as he was Told(Is it just me or does the movie kinda act like Lockdown himself isn't Cybertronian? Like, when he's talking with Optimus he speaks like all this wouldn't also apply to him) he outright mocks the idea of 'Loyalty to a Cause' When capturing Prime.

There's a weird...Quasi Respect after he gives Semetary wind the Seed, but nothing else indicates any real Villainous Friendship or Comradery. Quite the opposite seeming pretty cold in his Earlier meeting with Attinger, with lines like 'An alliance is a Contract, and a Contract, like humans...Expire'. And he's apathetic to Prime killing Harold.

While he's not as Sadistic as other Iterations, he's a pretty classic Psycho for Hire as an Accurate Lockdown should be.

Final Verdict?

I think he's worth another talk TBH, a Much Better villain than the Fallen that's for certain.

Edited by Snoketrope on Sep 1st 2021 at 3:20:59 AM

Bow to the Prototype
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#277582: Sep 1st 2021 at 3:11:31 PM

Holding off on Lockdown but tbh I prefer Ravok's solo entry for Attinger.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#277583: Sep 1st 2021 at 3:16:37 PM

I like both version of the Attinger entry. Could go either way. Vote on Lockdown very soon.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#277584: Sep 1st 2021 at 3:23:54 PM

Abstain on Lockdown.

Yes to Lenny.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#277585: Sep 1st 2021 at 3:29:26 PM

Far as memory serves, I'm fine with Lockdown. He's not a Decepticon commander, just a lone bounty hunter who plays a massive role in Cemetery Wind's operations, has a buttload of dead Transformers littering his ship, and hands off the Seed to Attinger's forces knowing any Transformers spawned from it are gonna get enslaved once formed. Not as personally repugnant as Attinger, but I'm good with him, I think.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#277586: Sep 1st 2021 at 3:30:23 PM

[tup]Lockdown

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#277587: Sep 1st 2021 at 3:31:13 PM

I kinda think I'm cool with him? Like I said, it's been years, but as not being a Decepticon leader, he might be bad enough. Count me as a tentative yes.

[down] I mean, Blackout and Devastator both have massive body count attempts to their name, I just give Lockdown credit for anti-Transformer actions and the fact that he's acting on his own

[down] pt.2: yeah you're right, like I said, I'm still upvoting him

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Sep 1st 2021 at 6:41:04 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#277588: Sep 1st 2021 at 3:32:29 PM

Another point in his favor, most non leader Decepticons are just generic mooks that don't do much which makes Lockdown stand out more among them

Same reason he keeps in Transformers animated. He is way worse than most of the similar villains of that tier.

[up]I said most. Not all. Plus those guys are working for their boss at the time well he's a lone wolf.

Edited by miraculous on Sep 1st 2021 at 3:37:41 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#277589: Sep 1st 2021 at 3:37:22 PM

[tup] to Anthony Lilliman, President Tyrak, the Lucien Lacombe rewrite, the Scáthach rewrite, the Pitt Mackeson rewrite, the "Captain" Simone Simonini rewrite, Hitoshi Munei, Michael Meyers, the "Hush" rewrite, Fabrizio, Mr. Mxyzptlk, Lenny Cole, and the Darin MacNamara rewrite. A more tentative on to Sludge Vohaul and Lockdown as well.

Keep Harold Attinger. His rewrite from Ravok looks good as well.

Edited by DrUnknown on Sep 1st 2021 at 3:37:36 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#277590: Sep 1st 2021 at 3:40:20 PM

Yes to Lockdown

Also just to avoid any issues, anyone interested in talking about Psychonauts 2 please hold off on PMing until I say I'm done with the game so I can avoid spoilers.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#277591: Sep 1st 2021 at 3:56:19 PM

Sure to Lockdown. Keep Attinger.

I am just stopping by to ask a question. For Venjix's write up can we cahange the the link before it to this?

That just seams neater to me since we do that on other pages.

Edited by Bullman on Sep 1st 2021 at 5:57:19 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#277592: Sep 1st 2021 at 3:59:43 PM

Anyone count in Superman & Lois?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#277593: Sep 1st 2021 at 4:01:12 PM

Keep Attinger. I guess [tup] Lockdown. It's another one of those "Well they didn't leave a huge impact but they check all the boxes." Then again rarely anything surprises me anymore here.

Snagging discussion on Spectacular Sparky.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#277594: Sep 1st 2021 at 4:06:43 PM

Tiny Thing but he does seem to have some kind of Crew(I think they were going for a Pirate captain sort of theme with him, with lines like 'Who fired the Anchors!?'), but it seems to just be around 4 or 5 dudes with no Major skills beyond 'Try to shoot stuff', still not a Major commander or anything.

Edited by Snoketrope on Sep 1st 2021 at 4:08:00 AM

Bow to the Prototype
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#277595: Sep 1st 2021 at 4:13:55 PM

Got two more candidates. Took a bit longer than I anticipated and I'll deal with their (potential) writeups, as well as the Shark Wars stuff in one fell swoop.

What's the Work?

Area 10 is a mystery DC Vertigo comic (though completely disconnected from the DC Universe) set in New York City, where a series of murders grab the attention and disgust of the city's police force. Detective Adam is assigned to find a connection and the culprit to decipher the case and bring the killer to justice, whom is nicknamed "Henry the VII". However, the case brings him into a brief scuffle with a manaic named Eduardo "Eddie" Sanchez, who drives a screwdriver into Adam's forehead and then commits suicide. Afterwards, it's revealed that such an injury is related to a treatment called trepanation, which involved painfully driving a hole into someone's skull that allows them to make more accurate predictions of the future via random hallucinations, in which Adam struggles to control these visions, while pursuing the serial killer haunting the city, which only complicates with the discovery of two killers...

Who is Jacob Palmer and Dr. Peter Handel? What Have They Done?

When first mentioned, Jacob Palmer just seems to be another victim of Henry VII, when he's actually later revealed to be the killer all along, in which his "body" was just a random victim of his. Prior, Palmer had trepanned himself and accessed the aforementioned powers of predicting the future, even mastering it so that he can more easily see visions of the future. Wishing to learn more about trepanation, Palmer began scamming people into undergoing the torturous treatment, performed by Palmer himself. Unfortunately, all of Palmer's participants had brain structures that rendered them unable to acquire the future-seeing powers associated with trepanation, where they were instead driven mad. Dissatisfied with these results, Palmer murdered these victims by decapitating them. Eventually, Palmer met a professor, Dr. Peter Handel, who had his own interest in trepanation. As a result, the duo teamed up, where Palmer would do most of the scheming, while Handel would do the dirty work, organizing his own "clinic" and conducting human experiments, where he would trepan and decapitate his patients to study its effects on the brain.

As they grow increasingly frustrated with his lack of progress, the two drop the part of trying to manipulate people into consenting to the procedure and just abducting people to kill instead, but this strategy fails to work too. Eventually, Palmer predicts that Adam could suitably develop future-seeing powers if he was trepanned, so he lets one of their own mad victims, Sanchez, loose to murder his own family, including the baby. Palmer himself was at the scene in a disguise, directly leading Adam to Sanchez so that he can be trepanned. As Adam's wound begins to heal, he tracks downs several of Handel's victims, albeit he only finds their heads. Knowing that this would happen, Palmer uses the cover of darkness to hide his identity and murder Adam's partner, Tommy. He then tries convincing Adam to accept his new powers and join as his protégé, but the detective refuses and escapes before Palmer can kill him.

Since his plan to recruit Adam failed, Palmer now chooses to frame him for the serial killings, trepanning and murdering a biker who nearly crashed into Adam's ex-wife years ago and thus putting Adam under much suspicion for the killing. To clear his name and suspicious of Handel, Adam searches his office and uncovers the brutal experiments he has been conducting. Unfortunately, it's revealed that Palmer trepanned himself and could now see into the future, so he accurately predicted Adam's arrival and tries to kill him. Adam fights back and, with some quick thinking, kills Handel by dousing him in water and using loose wires to electrocute him. As the police search through Handel's clinic, they discover tapes recording the tortures he engaged in.

Incensed by this failure, Palmer targets his girlfriend, Dr. Avery, torturing her via trepanation and holding her at knifepoint when Adam confronts him. With no point in faking his death any longer, Palmer reveals the entirety of his plans and manipulations during the case and plans to murder both Avery and Adam so that he can frame the latter as the murderer again and make it seem like he just committed suicide. Realizing that he could learn more about trepanation if he studies Adam's brain instead, Palmer offers to let Avery go if Adam hands over his gun so that he can shoot him and take his head. Adam seemingly obliges, but as Palmer bends over to reach for the gun, he attacks Palmer and a fight ensues, with both even trying to utilize their trepanation powers. Given his greater experience, Palmer has the upper hand and Adam seems to surrender when he goads Palmer into killing him, but just as he lunges forward, Adam strikes a drill through his eye and kills him off for good.

Does He Have Any Mitigating Qualities or Freudian Excuse?

Palmer initially expresses interest in teaming up with Adam to learn more about trepanation, but when he refuses, Palmer settles on killing him, completely nullifying that potential mitigating quality. Meanwhile, Handel doesn't even bother trying to team up with Adam. In addition, neither of their trepanations would affect their moral agency because they're shown to be completely aware of their actions and Adam himself got trepanned, yet remains lawful throughout the story. No Freudian Excuse for them either.

Does He Meet the Heinousness Standard?

It's shown in the story that trepanning a person is a painful process, so Palmer and Handel are effectively two serial killers who have tortured and murdered numerous people throughout their career, in which Handel is the one doing most of the killing. And besides that, Palmer has the additional crime of inciting one of his own victims to murder his family (which includes a baby) and spitefully targeting his opponents' girlfriend to torture and murder her. All in all, both play enough of a role and commit enough individual crimes to stand out from one another. It also helps that this story is unconnected to the DC Universe, despite sharing a publisher, so the duo can stand out in a relatively uncompetitive heinousness standard.

Final Verdict?

What do you guys think?

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#277596: Sep 1st 2021 at 4:33:20 PM

[tup]Jacob Palmer and Dr. Peter Handel

I’m also fine with giving Lockdown a [tup] giving that he willingly participates in Anttigers massacres

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#277597: Sep 1st 2021 at 4:36:05 PM

[tup]palmer and handrl

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#277598: Sep 1st 2021 at 4:38:11 PM

[tup] Lockdown, Jacob, and Peter

It's Spooky Month!
clemont107 Taunie from Lumiose City, Kalos (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Taunie
#277599: Sep 1st 2021 at 4:39:21 PM

[tup]To Fabrizio, Myx, Lenny, Palmer and Handel.

I'm gonna have to go with a [tdown] for Lockdown. As much of an effective threat he is, he actually ends up getting overshadowed by Attinger because we don't really see much of his motives, unlike Attinger's. Plus Attinger actually crosses the despicable line of Would Hurt a Child when he orders Tessa to be shot. I also think Lockdown didn't know Tessa was in the car when he ordered it to be taken to the dump.

"Great, now this gal named Dawn is stalking me and complaining about no Sinnoh Megas! It's getting on my nerves!" - Taunie
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#277600: Sep 1st 2021 at 5:03:39 PM

Keep Antinger.

Been suggested this image of remake!Shinra.

IPP Wick Check created.

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