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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#277551: Sep 1st 2021 at 12:19:50 PM

Heck yeah to Lenny, and welcome to the Guy Ritchie club!

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#277552: Sep 1st 2021 at 12:23:04 PM

Yes to Lenny even though the poor guy got pudding in his eye. Keep Attinger.

Also, I finished Psychonauts 2. A hecking good game. GOTY 2021 except for Nier Replicant ver 1337 you cowards play Nier ahem do PM for Psychonauts talk if you fancy.

Edited by PolarPhantom on Sep 1st 2021 at 12:23:41 PM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#277553: Sep 1st 2021 at 12:26:50 PM

Yes to Lenny (I need to watch this movie)

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#277555: Sep 1st 2021 at 12:33:44 PM

[tup]Mxyz (odd choice for Adaptational Villainy) & Cole

changing to keep Attinger thanks to Ravok's argument.

Edited by nwotyzal on Sep 1st 2021 at 12:41:44 PM

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#277556: Sep 1st 2021 at 12:43:17 PM

[tup] to Mxyz (Eh, we've got two legitimate candidates from Scribblenauts's DC crossover, nothing surprises me anymore) and Cole.

Keep the Bayverse Transformers guy.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Sep 1st 2021 at 12:43:45 PM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#277558: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:04:35 PM

[tup] Mxyz .

[tup] Lenny.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#277559: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:06:00 PM

Glad to see our man Rav getting his man GR's nasty baddies listed. Yes, yes and yes again!

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#277560: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:10:57 PM

I think the Seed thing was a leftover from when the EP-er thought using the Seed at all would wipe out most of the world.

The one thing I feel is kind of stretching is the 'He isn't shown to know it will be a Non Lethal detonation' Thing, he and Joyce were partners in large part and seemed to plan things together, with it never being Indicated Attinger had other ideas with it(Plus, it would be really damn Hard to cover up openly nuking Millions and still use the Transformium like they planned XD, the fact doing such a thing would attract Global Attention being what Galvatrons plan Hinges on) but aside from that? Yes Attinger still keeps for the reasons Ravok layed out, they killed enough transformers to make a Damn army and he gives Lockdown the Go to start wrecking a City, in addition to tinier things listed by him.

[tup] to Myx and Lennie

Bow to the Prototype
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#277561: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:11:07 PM

I ask: Can these two entries be combined?

  • Hitman (2016): Oybek Nabazov, the leader of Liberation, is a man deeply obsessed with death, suicide and rebirth. Over the last three decades he has founded several cults, led them down a self-destructive path that resulted in seven mass suicides, leaving the remains behind to start anew. When the former virologist Owen Cage helped the cult create a deadly virus, Nabazov intended to have some of his most fanatical followers inject themselves with the virus to cause several outbreaks around the globe in a coordinated attack. When Agent 47 arrives in Bangkok to assassinate him, he has begun brainwashing a new group of unaware cult recruits with the intention of having them spread the virus to Bangkok and beyond.
  • Hitman (2016): Sister Yulduz, the "chosen sister", is the second-in-command of the Liberation cult. Pretending to be a devout follower of Nabazov she helped organizing the cult attacks, while secretly having invested large amounts of money into security and pharmacy companies to profit from the chaos caused by the virus outbreaks. Showing no loyalty towards Nabazov or the cult, she already made plans to escape and leave them to their fates as soon as they begin their attacks.

Even together, they're under 200, and it would be better for indentation purposes. Plus not the first time a Big Bad and The Starscream have been listed together (see the first entry at In Death).

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#277562: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:11:56 PM

Alright then guess he needs a rewrite as his current way under sells him

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#277563: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:17:33 PM

I’m fine with a rewrite that would highlight Antiger’s more heinous crimes

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#277564: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:20:20 PM

Ravok said he would do a rewrite, so I've added that to his to-do.

Since we now have 2 keepers from the original Holmes stories, I'm gonna do this:

ALSO, since we're getting a new keeper from those comics, I've reopened Monster Halloween, so if y'all want to play with the formatting, feel free.

Edited by ACW on Sep 1st 2021 at 4:22:06 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#277565: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:24:47 PM

Isn't it just the attempted genocide and remaking dead Transformers into mindless slaves? I'm not sure there's a lot to say about him, from my understanding I don't see why something like this wouldn't be sufficient:

  • Harold Attinger is a CIA agent responsible for the creation of a black ops group seeking the eradication of all Transformers. Entering into a coalition with the evil Transformer Lockdown and a Corrupt Corporate Executive, Attinger has any Transformers killed remade into mindless machines to supply to the US Army. With enough killed to create his own armada, Attinger is a vicious bigot who hides his hatred under the guise of claims to be protecting humanity.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#277566: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:25:41 PM

He also sends Lockdown into Hong Kong despite the deaths that would cause to the entire city.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#277567: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:27:56 PM

[lol] Well then, I'll leave it to someone's who's actually seen.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#277568: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:42:54 PM

I'd like to propose a rewrite for Darin MacNamara while I'm at it, because to be honest, even though he easily keeps, the entry hypes him up a bit much and is actually misleading on some of his acts. Here's the current:

  • "The Ring": Darin MacNamara is a greedy ringmaster and, despite being only human, is one of the most monstrous villains that Angel has ever faced. Running an arena where he kidnaps other demons and forces them to fight to the death, Darin refuses to let any of them go until they've had their 21st kill. Anyone who tries to escape gets incinerated by an electric bracelet they are forced to wear, and anyone who refuses to fight gets tortured. After kidnapping Angel, he holds Darin's brother and partner-in-crime hostage as a way of forcing him to let them go, stating "he's your brother". Darin, without any hesitation or look of remorse, shoots his brother to death, simply explaining, "Now he's my dead brother", and has Angel tortured afterwards. After Angel refuses Darin's offer to be let free for his own financial gain, Darin, believing Angel had outlived his usefulness, puts him in a fight against the ruling "champ", who's at his 21st fight, in hopes of him getting killed. Greedy, ruthless, and even seeing his own brother as a mere tool, Darin proved to be more monstrous than any of his demonic contenders.

My rewrite:

  • "The Ring": Darin MacNamara is a greedy ringmaster and a demon slavedriver. Running an arena where he kidnaps demons and forces them to fight to the death, Darin refuses to let any of them go until they've had their 21st kill. Anyone who tries to escape or refuses to fight gets incinerated by an electric bracelet they are forced to wear. After luring Angel into his trap and watching his brother be taken hostage, Darin simply shoots his own brother dead, only saying "now he's my dead brother". After Angel refuses Darin's offer to be let free for his own financial gain, Darin, believing Angel had outlived his usefulness, puts him in a fight against the ruling "champ", who's at his 21st fight, in hopes of him getting killed. Greedy, ruthless, and even seeing his own brother as a mere tool, Darin stands out as the worst of humanity's evil.

1. He really didn't need to be hyped up at both the beginning and the end of the entry, and saying he stacks up to his demonic contenders is pretty much factually inaccurate thanks to Silas. 2. Demons who refuse to fight aren't tortured, they're straight up killed. 3. He doesn't have Angel tortured, he knocks him out with stun batons. And 4. grammatically, it kind of implies that Darin held his own brother hostage, and we don't need a full play-by-play on their exchange.

Thoughts?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#277570: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:49:07 PM

Good rewrite, STAR!

Yeah, I'll give Attinger a full-fledged one, he does several more personal flourishes like with Cade's daughter and unleashing Galvatron that I think do enough to warrant an outright rewrite myself. In fact, lemme go ahead and do that:

  • Harold Attinger is a cold, calculating CIA operative who creates "Cemetery Wind" under the guise of protecting Earth. In truth, Attinger uses Cemetery Wind to ally with Lockdown in tracking down and butchering countless Transformers across Earth and turning their husks into his personal army. Callous to the lives of innocents and even his own men, Attinger threatens the teenage daughter of Cade Yeager for information, unleashes Galvatron onto a populated area and shrugs off lives lost, and orders Lockdown to go all-out in destroying Optimus Prime, which leads to copious death and destruction through Hong Kong. Planning to use the Cybertronian Seed to create a new breed of Transformers who will be immediately enslaved as war machines, Attinger then tries to murder his business partner and other innocents for crossing him. Attinger claims to want the best for America, but soon enough reveals his true colors of a greedy sociopath who will endanger countless lives to satisfy his privileged, hateful rhetoric against any life that isn't his own.

Thoughts?

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#277571: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:50:56 PM

[tup] Lenny and Mxyzptlk

Not the weirdest adaptational villainy of Mxyzptlk I've read. Anyone read the one where he was responsible for the deaths of every single one of Superman's allies and enemies (save for Lois and a few Justice League members) all 'cause he was bored?

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#277572: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:52:39 PM

The new Attinger entry is a winner Rav.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#277573: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:58:53 PM

[tup]Good rewrites

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#277575: Sep 1st 2021 at 2:14:50 PM

[tup] to Fabrizio, Mr Mxyzptlk and Lenny Cole.


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