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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#277276: Aug 30th 2021 at 10:41:49 AM

[tup] Llewellyn.

Edited by YobabyColin on Aug 30th 2021 at 1:41:59 PM

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#277278: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:05:50 AM

[tup] to John Stearne, Ivan Moser, and Llewellyn Caswell.

[tdown] to Craster.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#277279: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:12:19 AM

[tup] Moser.

[tup] Llewellyn.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#277280: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:25:56 AM

[tup] to Stearne, Ivan and Llewellyn. [tdown] Craster.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#277281: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:27:16 AM

And a yep to Matthias Pavayne and Freddy Kruger’s love child

Any thoughts on the question I asked here?

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Aug 30th 2021 at 2:27:43 PM

Bugfragged Since: Nov, 2012
#277282: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:46:06 AM

[tup] to John Stearne, Ivan Moser, and Llewellyn Caswell [tdown] to Craster

What is the work?

Soma Union is the sequel to Soma Spirits. This time, a cataclysmic event caused Soma to fracture into several chunks, all of which get scattered across space. The only good news is that each chunk is somehow capable of sustaining life. The recon team of Starship Virtue, consisting of Zero, Reca, and Lumen, are tasked with scouting each chunk of Soma in order to find a way to recombine all pieces of the planet. Unsurprisingly, Absolution is involved in the shattering of Soma. Surprisingly, Absolution turns out to be an intelligent being rather than just a source of power.

Who is Absolution?

In its complete form, Absolution appears as a floating, two-toned purple mask. At some point in history, it partnered with the construction business owner Mason, granting the latter godlike power. The details aren't specified, but Mason eventually realized Absolution wants to manipulate him into destroying the world, so he seals Absolution into an underground shrine in the hopes that no one will ever be manipulated like he was. It also turns out those who stop wearing Absolution's mask still keep a small portion of Absolution's power, permanently giving Mason life-infusing abilities.

What has he done?

Absolution is eventually unsealed by Bright, who is desperate for help so that he can look for his friends, Rozen and Silvio, who got lost in the forest. Absolution takes on an orange and yellow color scheme to make itself less intimidating towards Bright and plays the role of a helpful wish-granting device. It offers to use its power to help Bright look for his friends and give him the power so that he'll never lose anyone again. Bright ends up accepting its help and it keeps up its end of the deal, for now.

Bright, Rozen, and Silvio later explore Form and Dissonance's manor, which is filled with all kinds of magic barriers that are hard to break even with Absolution's power. Absolution takes advantage of this by having Bright struggle to break this one tanky barrier, filling Bright with aggression and making him more addicted to Absolution's power. Absolution instructs Bright to infuse life into the manor, causing it to grow into a huge castle that reaches into the clouds. As stated before, this has the side effect of reviving Form and Dissonance.

On Absolution's advice, Bright rules over the world as the Sun King and orders the entire world population to move close to the castle for their own safety, but unbeknownst to Bright, this causes his citizens to feel stifled by the strict confines of the citadel, setting up a powderkeg for a world war. This also means everyone in the world is so close together that a sufficiently destructive spell from Absolution could kill everyone in one fell swoop. Form and Dissonance's first attack on Bright forces him to rely on even more of Absolution's power to yeet them, but Absolution takes advantage of Bright's struggle to control this power by telling him to attack Rozen and Silvio. Bright starts up the attack, but manages to regain his sanity and warn his friends to dodge in time. At this point, Bright comes to the same realization as Mason and wants to cut ties with Absolution, but Absolution argues that Bright cannot give up being its wearer, otherwise Form and Dissonance will claim it for themselves.

When Form and Dissonance attack the citadel with their armies, Absolution is amused by this situation because Bright is forced into a no-win situation. If he uses Absolution's power to win, he'll likely lose control again and kill everyone in the citadel. If he doesn't, Form and Dissonance will win, and then they'll use Absolution's power to slaughter anyone with the "wrong" emotions. Bright instead turns Absolution's power against itself, but fails to destroy it completely. Absolution splits into four large fragments and several small fragments, with the small fragments inhabiting the orb targets of Soma Spirits.

For a century, Absolution remains fragmented until Mason, now known as Professor M, gathers all its fragments again. After seeing what Form and Dissonance nearly accomplished with only a portion of Absolution's power, M wants to seal Absolution away again at any cost. He creates several artificial spirits in the hopes that one of them will be strong enough to safely contain Absolution, but his lack of empathy towards his creations causes one of them, Zeta, to go rogue. Zeta takes the fragments and recompletes Absolution, declaring his wish to destroy Soma and replace it with a paradise for spirits. Absolution is pleased that he doesn't have to waste time slowly corrupting its new host and immediately works on granting Zeta's wish. The two attempt to completely destroy Soma by overruning it with shadow monsters before blowing it up, but Bright's soul inhabits another spirit replica, Zero, and attacks the two, causing Absolution to be fragmented once again. Three of Absolution's fragments end up in different chunks of Soma while Zeta manages to salvage one fragment. As a result of the incomplete attempt to destroy Soma, the planet is fragmented into several habitable continents rather than fully destroyed.

Zeta spends the next 20 years as Captain Guidance, who commandeers the Starship Virtue and manipulates the crew into looking for the fragments of Absolution with the false promise of putting Soma back together. He successfully recompletes Absolution and the two try to brainwash Zero into joining them, but Bright stops them again. They leave the party and the other spirit replicas to die in an exploding lab, but Professor M sacrifices himself to save everyone else.

Zeta and Absolution take over the Sun King's Citadel in preparation for destroying the chunks of Soma and its people. When Zeta fails to defeat the party, Absolution turns against Zeta and strikes him down for being weak. It then tries to tempt the party into working with it to restore Soma, but Zeta tries to warn them of Absolution's treacherous nature, so Absolution mortally wounds him.

The party faces Absolution in battle, so Absolution takes the form of a giant tentacle monster and engages in a Hopeless Boss Fight. Bright gives his remaining power to the party, allowing them to force Absolution to take its true form, a teal angelic being. Absolution is defeated and split into fragments for the third time.

The party has a choice, they can use the fragments of Absolution to restore Soma, but at the risk of the fragments scattering and being reassembled in the future. They can also destroy Absolution's fragments permanently, but lose their opportunity to reassemble their planet. Neither choice is considered canon.

Mitigating factors?

Any time it offers to help someone who has good intentions, it also plans on twisting those good intentions for its own goal of destroying Soma. Even its final offer is an obvious repeat of its deal with Bright, since it would be easier to destroy Soma all at once after it has been recompleted. It doesn't care who it teams up with as long as it can use them.

It has weaker characterization than the other villains in the series, due to its lack of any ideology other than a desire to create a world of nothingness. It still qualifies as a Flat Character due to its manipulative and superficially charming personality.

The biggest roadblock for this candidate is that it has no actual backstory like the other major villains and has ambiguous agency. Even when it's out of commission, its fragments can corrupt the emotions of those they inhabit, ranging from making them depressed to making them Ax-Crazy depending on how much of Absolution is in them. This makes it seem like Absolution is Made of Evil and therefore has questionable agency. Ironically, despite its omnicidal goals, it also has the ability to create matter, revive people as spirits, and even create new sapient life, making it a case of Good Powers, Bad People. While the majority of its boss forms are Eldritch Abominations, its true form is an Angelic Abomination-lite that actually doesn't look all that grotesque, implying that this is its original nature and that it might have agency on whether it can use its powers for good or evil.

As for its ability to understand good and evil, it knows how to play to its hosts' morality and feed them ideas that sound benevolent on paper, even if it has no actual benevolent intentions. At the same time, it can't understand why anyone, good or evil, would want to refuse its godlike power.

Heinousness

It's just as omnicidal as Form and Dissonance and would have succeeded multiple times if Bright didn't keep shattering it. Zeta is the only other character who can reach this level of heinousness due to teaming up with Absolution, but Zeta has a last minute apology that disqualifies him.

Verdict

The mystery of its origins makes me unsure if it can qualify.

Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#277283: Aug 30th 2021 at 12:09:40 PM

[tup] to John Stearne, Ivan Moser, and Llewellyn Caswell

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#277284: Aug 30th 2021 at 1:25:10 PM

For Absolution, I think that he can subvert the questionable moral agency characteristic if it can understand benevolent morality and use it to manipulate others. However, I'm a bit concerned if he qualifies as a Generic Doomsday Villain because an antagonist would also need a defined motive to avert that trope. Does the game state or imply what Absolution's motive is behind why he wants to destroy the world, like if he does it For the Evulz?

@STARCRUSHER99: I'd say read the whole series to get an understanding of a general, loose heinousness standard, akin to how Star Wars Legends has one. Apologies for missing that query earlier.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#277285: Aug 30th 2021 at 1:37:23 PM

Abstain Absolution.

Edited by YobabyColin on Aug 30th 2021 at 4:37:51 AM

Bugfragged Since: Nov, 2012
#277286: Aug 30th 2021 at 1:42:12 PM

Absolution's states its goal is complete singularity, which translates to everything except itself being erased. Even For the Evulz isn't supported enough in the dialogue. In that case, it probably doesn't have enough of a defined motive to qualify.[tdown]

Edited by Bugfragged on Aug 30th 2021 at 1:43:38 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#277287: Aug 30th 2021 at 1:44:15 PM

[tdown]Absolution.

It sounds like theirs a bit too much ambiguity about its morality to count.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#277288: Aug 30th 2021 at 1:58:51 PM

[tup] to Jeff, Terl, Iruel, Form and Dissonance, John Stearne, Craster, Ivan Moser and Llewellyn Caswell.

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#277289: Aug 30th 2021 at 2:00:30 PM

[tup] for Sauron, Hush, Randar, Madison, Haru, Terl, Iruel, Form and Dissonance, Stearne, Ivan Moser, Llewellyn, and Absolution.

[tdown] for Tyrian and Craster.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#277290: Aug 30th 2021 at 2:03:14 PM

Easy Yes to Llewellyn, nice!

Now for my own rapist crime novel baddie!

What's the work?

Cape Fear is a classic thriller film from the 60s starring the excellent Gregory Peck and Robert Mitchum, concerning a vengeful ex-convict stalking a man who he blames for his imprisonment, leading to murder, mayhem and a climactic battle on the titular Cape Fear river. The movie is terrific, and was remade in the 90s by Martin Scorsese himself—wasn't as good as the original, but still a solid flick.

Well, today, I wanna talk...not exactly this. I wanna talk the book the movies were based off, a novel by John D. MacDonald. Hilariously enough not called "Cape Fear" but rather The Executioners, with the famous houseboat battle on Cape Fear river nowhere to be seen.

My disappointment was immeasurable, and my day was ruined. But luckily, one of my favorite villains in cinema Keeps just as easily in the original work!

Who is Max Cady? What has he done?

Described as the nearest thing a human can be to 100% rotten to the core, Max Cady was a violent thug through his youth, getting in trouble for fights and assaults on the reg until he was forced to either go to prison, or join the military. Opting for the latter, Cady found himself in deep doodoo when he viciously attacked and raped a 14 year old girl near his Australian military outpost in a drunken rage, the girl saved only by the efforts of military Lieutenant Sam Bowden.

Tried and convicted to years in prison thanks to Sam, Cady spent years stewing...blaming everyone but himself for his being caught, his wife leaving him and starting a new family, and Sam Bowden having a full life ahead of him. So when Cady is eventually set free from prison 13 years later, he quickly decides to put his decade of revenge fantasies to use.

Tracking down and abducting his ex-wife, Cady plans to rape and torture her for a week. After 3 days of it, he grew tired of how fast he "broke" her, and dumps her violated, battered body on the side of the road, threatening that if she dares try to speak out about the assault, he'll come back and "throw a couple of her kids under some delivery trucks."

Next finding Sam, Cady begins stalking and harassing the man and his family—comprised of wife Carol, 14 year old daughter Nancy, and 11 and 6 year old boys Jamie and Bucky—with his tormenting reaching a sick height when he deliberately, sadistically poisons the family dog right as the children are coming home from school, so they will see the poor thing writhe in agony and die.

Regaling Sam with the story of his wife as a thinly-veiled threat, Cady later spends an entire night brutalizing and assaulting a woman he had been spending his nights with with killing intent, simply because she asked a question he didn't like. She survived, barely, and now is far too scared to speak up about him.

Continuing to torment the Bowden family and make sexual threats to Sam's wife and daughter, Cady later tries to shoot Jamie dead at a summer camp, luckily only wounding the boy's arm. Cady then sabotages the family vehicle and nearly kills Carol, Jamie and Bucky in a car crash.

In the climactic battle at...not Cape Fear river...but just a plain old house....Cady attacks the Bowden family one last time, stabbing a cop named Kersek to death for trying to protect the family before beating, slashing and trying to rape Carol. Spooked by Sam showing up with a gun, Cady flees into the night as Sam fires wildly, apparently missing his target while he tends to Carol and his family.

Luckily, that "firing wildly" did the trick, and a stray bullet severed one of Cady's arteries. He bled out before he even reached the end of the street, and he is found the next day, dead, by police.

Bit anticlimactic if ya ask me but.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Nada, there's a background check run on Cady that reveals his father was "tough" and his whole family had criminal inclinations, but the story is pretty damn clear in showing Cady to be a willing monster, flatout said to be a total psychopath.

While telling Sam about his life being "ruined", Cady notes that his only son died while he was in prison...and that's it. No like, literally, he says it like it's a simple fact with zero emotion or sadness attributed to him, as just another laundry list of the ways he has Never My Fault as his defining trait. Nothing betrays any sort of care he may have had for his son, and considering his first act upon release from prison is to violently torture and rape the mother of his kid....yeah, no, nothing here at all. Cady is explicitly said to be avoiding blame for his horrid crime and trying to make himself a victim, but he's totally, completely in the wrong on this—raped a teen, got in trouble, now mad about it.

Heinousness?

Novel!Cady is pretty much movie Cady but worse in most ways. His initial rape victim is younger than in the films, his torture-rape of his ex-wife is given more detail than the movies, Sam's family includes two young boys who Cady tries to kill...pretty much the only thing Novel!Cady is lacking is the explicit intent to rape Sam's teen daughter, but even then he still tries for Carol, and his comments through the novel definitely imply he's got the same in mind for Nancy.

Final Verdict?

Easy Keeper.

Edited by Ravok on Aug 30th 2021 at 2:07:45 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#277291: Aug 30th 2021 at 2:05:06 PM

[tup]Max Cady

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#277292: Aug 30th 2021 at 2:05:24 PM

Based on the EP, of course [tup] to the OG OG Cady! Well done Ravok! Had a strong feeling he counted!

As great as the 1962 one is, I admit that the 1991 version is probably more definitive to me. The ultraviolet manner of the dark aspects of the story help it stand out in comparison.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Aug 30th 2021 at 2:08:08 AM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#277293: Aug 30th 2021 at 2:07:15 PM

[tup] to Novel!Max Cadey

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#277295: Aug 30th 2021 at 2:12:38 PM

[tup] Novel!Cady

Edited by therealjackieboy on Aug 30th 2021 at 2:12:54 AM

It's Spooky Month!
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#277296: Aug 30th 2021 at 2:13:54 PM

Yes to Cady.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
CaptainPinkiePie from Equestria with love Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Brony
#277299: Aug 30th 2021 at 2:17:26 PM

[tup] Cady.

Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#277300: Aug 30th 2021 at 2:19:21 PM

Yes to Cady...set free after 13 years for raping a young teenager??


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