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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#276326: Aug 22nd 2021 at 5:59:13 AM

[tup] Deceiver, Child trafficker, Jeff and Mutt.

Have you ever wondered if we'll ever run out of CM candidates? I know probably not because new content is always being made, but I just wonder because of how many we tend to get. Also how many new entrees do you think we get in a year?

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#276327: Aug 22nd 2021 at 6:10:04 AM

[tup] Deceiver, old guy, Jeff and Nutts

[up] Well, sometimes you can find CM(s) in the most unexpected of places cool

Edited by RobertTYL on Aug 22nd 2021 at 9:10:49 PM

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#276328: Aug 22nd 2021 at 6:53:15 AM

[up] Most likely not. As for how much we get, I am guessing around 500+ per year considering there are times where we upvote around 7-15 keepers in an entire day.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#276329: Aug 22nd 2021 at 6:53:32 AM

[up][up][up] Nah. Media is just too big. With so many works over so many years in so many countries. Well never run out.

Edit : [nja]

Edited by miraculous on Aug 22nd 2021 at 6:53:53 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#276330: Aug 22nd 2021 at 7:12:31 AM

500 per year? That's under 10/week. Even ignoring rewrites and expansions, I'd say it's AT LEAST double that, and even that may be understating it.

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#276331: Aug 22nd 2021 at 7:16:51 AM

  • Airplane vs Volcano (2014 The Asylum film): Carlos Crieger is the film's human antagonist. Crieger would use situation to stroke panic among the passengers until he can rally them to take over the plane, relishing in the power this gives him. Using Rick Pierce as a scapegoat, Crieger attempts to kill him by throwing him out of the plane, and threatens the life of a passenger that doesn't do so. When the rest of the crew and passengers hatches an escape plan, Crieger kills Jim and takes it solely for himself, leaving everyone on the plane to die.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#276332: Aug 22nd 2021 at 7:22:26 AM

[up][up] I was mainly thinking that because since I was active her almost 3 years ago, the pages have grown exponentially and searching back for my first ever candidate, that was so many pages ago in this forum it made me think. I remember we used to have at least 20 per week before.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#276333: Aug 22nd 2021 at 7:56:07 AM

[tup] to the Deceiver, Child trafficker, Both Chainsaw baddies, and Jeff and Mutt

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#276336: Aug 22nd 2021 at 9:59:19 AM

[up] Yeah, I miscounted lol. At least 1,500 per year.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#276337: Aug 22nd 2021 at 10:22:51 AM

@Silverblade2 Oh yes, Jeff and Mutt are Laughably Evil at its finest. Fortunately the show goes above and beyond to portray their actions as seriously as possible, especially in their final scenes. Once they realize that Myrtle Snow is going to be a nuisance to their plans, they drop the act and point a gun at her. Myrtle herself is bothered by the fact that she has to keep them alive in order for the witches to stop The Antichrist. As for Miss Venable, her only truly evil act was poisoning the people of Outpost 3, she's nothing more than a Disc-One Final Boss that the witches didn't even need to deal with.

Myrtle Snow: These little symbols are Outposts for the survivors of this little holocaust you're so gleefully anticipating.
Jeff Pfister: It's not little, lady.
Mutt Nutter: Yeah. Seven billion dead in the first ten minutes, starting with you.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Aug 22nd 2021 at 2:29:19 PM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#276338: Aug 22nd 2021 at 10:34:34 AM

[tup] Jeff Dastardly and Muttley

It's Spooky Month!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#276340: Aug 22nd 2021 at 10:50:32 AM

Yea to Jeff and Mutt

Consider the sheer breadth of how much media is out there. There are, quite literally, millions of published books, produced movies and comics, anime, etc. Millions. There is more being made, reprinted, discovered every single year.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#276341: Aug 22nd 2021 at 10:59:57 AM

Yes to Jeff and Mutt.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#276342: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:16:51 AM

'Yes' to the Deceiver, the child trafficked, and Jeff + Matt!

Gonna snag up Tron 3 for discussion, film's been in Development Hell awhile but it seems to be moving forward slooooowly so I'll grab it.

Alright, I'm hoping to have a busy day here...got another Texas baddie, a reevaluation, and a Hong Kong flick to bring up today, if all goes well!

Let's start out wiiiiiith spins in a circle the Hong Kong film!

What's the work?

Paradox is a 2017 Hong Kong action-thriller directed by Wilson Yip of Ip Man fame.

Serving as a Spiritual Successor and sort-of-but-not-really sequel to the SPL movies, we follow Hong Kong detective Lee Chung-chi on his quest to find his missing 16 year old daughter in Thailand. Along the way, Chung-chi butts heads with rival cops, battered prostitutes, vile organ traffickers and corrupt politicians on a quest destined for tragedy.

One of those things listed above is not like the others, and you can guess which sparked this proposal!

Who is Sacha? What has he done?

A boisterous, fedora-wearing Large Ham who notably speaks English for most of his dialogue, Sacha is an ex-mercenary who lives by a dark motto: "Life is limited. Just accept it."

Under guise of a frozen meat company, Sacha has secretly spent years masking a massive organ trafficking operation, entailing the kidnapping and butchering of visiting tourists to Thailand for their organs. Sacha not-so-subtly brags about how it's "what God meant" for him to do, under thin veils of referring to his pig meat plant:

"God put them on this earth for us to consume! It's against nature for us not to eat them. I always try to tell my clients not to think so much. If it wasn't meant to be? God would have not made it possible!"

Employing the brutal, rapist cop Ban as a kidnapper of girls for him, Sacha is contacted by our Big Bad Cheng, who is in the market for a heart to save the local mayor's life in a transplant. Sacha chooses the 16 year old Lee Wing-chi as the unwilling donor, having her kidnapped and kept drugged and chained up while the operation is prepared...

As Wing-chi's father Chung-chi tears a path of destruction through Thailand in search of her, Sacha tries to cover up his and Ban's involvement in her disappearance, and at one point gets into a fight with good-hearted cop Tak. After a long fight on top of a building, Sacha is left dangling off the edge and begs Tak to save him, who complies...Sacha responds to this kindness by grabbing a nearby child and yeeting him off the side of the building to distract Tak, and though Tak barely manages to save the boy? Sacha uses the distraction to mercilessly kick Tak himself off the roof to his death.

Eventually tracked down by Chung-chi, Sacha tortures him in a nasty way by stabbing a meat hook through his leg and dragging him around his factory's floor with a motorized vehicle. Confronted by local cop Chui, Sacha brutally duels him and ultimately gets the upper hand, preparing to finish Chui off with a bonesaw.

Unfortunately? Chung-chi finds Wing-chi....too late, her body stripped of its heart by Sacha's men to be sold to Cheng. And before Sacha can finish off Chui, an enraged Chung-chi attacks him, bites off his ear and uses his own bonesaw to slash the man's throat open, killing him and avenging the party most responsible for his daughter's death.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Absolutely not, just a vile, hateable thug whose Laughably Evil traits do absolute jack shit to mask what a bastard he is.

Heinousness?

The film is, much like SPL II to the first SPL, kiiiiind of a sequel but really just in Spiritual Successor ways. Actors playing entirely different characters appear across all 3 films and there's practically zero connections otherwise, so while it's a "trilogy", it's more like an anthology or some such, not a genuine throughline of stories and characters. So I don't quite think the villains of II should be held against Sacha, even though he'd still probably count, tbh.

So, in terms of this film itself? Sacha is the worst, bar none. Cheng is the Big Bad but has redeeming features and isn't involved in Sacha's business as a whole—he's just another client, so Sacha outdoes even him. I wish Ban could count, being a primary "acquisition" agent of victims for the trafficking and having a very rough torture-rape scene of a poor prostitute who he corners, but he's ultimately lacking in much actual proof to his role in the trafficking—he has the one horrid rape scene and is the one who kidnapped Wing-chi, but we've got little else to go on for how involved he was in the operation as a whole, and he spends most of his screentime getting tortured and battered around by Chung-chi for information.

Sacha? Not only has the vile organ harvesting ring which targets even teenagers, but the entire sequence with Tak is just...nasty. He begs the man to save his life, then throws a child off a fucking roof, then coldly kicks Tak to his death. It's a rough combo of Would Hurt a Child and Ungrateful Bastard that's just...bad. Now, we don't really get a full scope for if Sacha has harvested dozens, hundreds, etc. of victims, but we get to see his latest "batch" of at least three young women, and he's noted to be doing this for years, so it's more than enough pattern to say "a lot of victims."

Final Verdict?

Korean, Japanese and Hong Kong films love their organ traffickers, eh? Keeper.

Edited by Ravok on Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:29:19 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#276343: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:21:01 AM

[tup] Sacha Baron Cohen

It's Spooky Month!
Cutegirl920fire Player 222 from the Squid Games (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: Paris holds the key to my heart
Player 222
#276344: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:25:06 AM

[tup] Sacha. I wonder why those countries like using organ harvesters in their works.

CG for short
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#276345: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:28:10 AM

[tup]Sacha

[up]I read that Organ Harvesting is a major underground crime in Asian countries.

Edited by nwotyzal on Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:28:20 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#276346: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:29:18 AM

Yes to Sacha. Now here's one more C'tan I've decided is worth talking about:

Who is the Flayer? What has he done?

Alongside the other C'tan, Llandu'gor took advantage of the short-lived Necrontyr race to insert themselves as gods and horrifically abuse their worshippers. During the final leg of the War in Heaven, when the Necron began rebelling, the Flayer was shattered so completely his conscious was undone, unlike the Deceiver or Nightbringer no shards of his remain. For revenge he bestowed a curse upon the Necrons:

To those who have turned their faces away.
To those who are faithless and wretched in their jealousies
To those who have denied us.
To those who have denied me.
I will wreak vengeance.
I will wrench your souls and break your bones.
I will cast hunger through your cursed existence.
Down the eons you will not forget.
I will grant you this gift from love turned aside and make you like me.
Break you in my image as you have broken me.
I shall cast the fear of myself into you and all of your kind.
I am Llandu'gor.
I am the hunger.
I am the Flayer.
And from this moment you shall be too.

And thus was born the "Flayer Virus": Necrons are now prone to the plague which infects them slowly, completely tearing away their sanity. As it does so it gives the machine race and unquenchable thirst and hunger for blood and flesh, which they attempt to sate unendingly by skinning and killing foes. Utterly omnicidal, they're despised and feared by the rest of their race as they attempt to wipe out all organic life to sate their appetites.

Mitigating factors?

Hilarious... the excuse that he's doing it as revenge has no bearing given he's taking out his rage on a race that rebelled against him for his tyranny in the first place. The Flayer is a petty monster that seeks the destruction of the sanity of his killers' race, even if that means cleansing the galaxy of organic life.

Heinousness?

For an outright Posthumous Character he's pretty nasty. The Flayer was involved in typical C'tan nastiness towards the Necrontyr and creating omnicidal zombies is a new one, even with all the branches of Chaos experimentation.

Verdict?

Least sure about this one but I'm saying yes personally. Discuss!

Edited by 43110 on Aug 22nd 2021 at 2:55:22 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#276348: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:39:56 AM

[tup]Sacha and Flayer.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#276349: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:47:02 AM

changing to "Yes" for Jeff and Mutt Yes to Sacha

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#276350: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:48:43 AM

Yes to Sacha. Same tree as SPL II, or too distinct?

Omnicidal zombies you say? I THINK I'll lean yes, but subject to change.

Can we please get a quote for Darkman?

Also, how many more Texas candidates we got? This is one where I think 7 is enough for a page, what with all the Halloween-like continuity screwiness.


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