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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#276051: Aug 20th 2021 at 8:10:34 AM

[up][up][up]the only ones I liked were the Black Mask image & Dracula image

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#276052: Aug 20th 2021 at 8:19:19 AM

Where will Antonio go in the tree? At the end?

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#276053: Aug 20th 2021 at 8:20:27 AM

He's from the latest series, so yeah.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#276054: Aug 20th 2021 at 9:09:40 AM

Not feeling any of the images, honestly.

Scarecrow, a word of advice; something like 1% of all stills of a given candidate are usable. Maybe send someone a PM and get their opinion before bringing images to the thread.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#276055: Aug 20th 2021 at 10:07:28 AM

The Frollo image is too vague as to what he's doing.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#276056: Aug 20th 2021 at 10:23:45 AM

For the Dark Man page,I think the reason why Strack has two separate entries repeating the same thing was mainly because Scraggle did both comic and novel adaptation of the first Dark Man film where they readapted his crimes that was meant to be in the movie but were cut out with book and comic bringing it back up.

As for the quote for the page, I did suggest this from Durant in the 93 comic series but only one guy gave a response to it and no one else.

[down] I'm a bit neutral on the changes so it doesn't really matter for me.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Aug 20th 2021 at 1:57:13 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#276057: Aug 20th 2021 at 10:42:40 AM

Quote's not the best, but would suffice.

Is the change I made to Strack's okay?

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#276058: Aug 20th 2021 at 10:55:34 AM

[tup] for Drummond, Moriarty, Antonio, and Kim.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#276059: Aug 20th 2021 at 11:38:10 AM

'Yes' to Antonio and Kim

Alright, been meaning to get to this one for some time...he might not land tbh, but ever since we updated our rulings on agency? I've wanted to reevaluate this fine fellow.

What's the work?

Alan Wake is a great video game by the great company Remedy Entertainment, following the titular Alan Wake—a popular crime novelist—who discovers that a location called "Cauldron Lake" is haunted by a dangerous entity seeking to consume the world by using Cauldron Lake's ability to bring ideas to life, and this leads Alan on a sprawling tale of fighting the darkness preying on his world and using the Lake's own powers against it.

Who is Mr. Scratch? What has he done?

The evil doppelganger of Alan Wake whose name is always, quite literally, scratched out from audible interpretation, Mr. Scratch was created by Cauldron Lake thanks to a variety of dark rumors and ideas floating around the general public about Alan, manifesting in Mr. Scratch.

Making an alliance with the Dark Place and the monstrous entities that reside there, Mr. Scratch has two goals: to replace and ruin Alan Wake, and to unleash the Dark Place onto the mortal plane and consume the world in chaos and destruction.

Serving as the Big Bad of semi-sequel American Nightmare, Mr. Scratch traps Alan in a time loop to give him a Fate Worse than Death, forcing Alan to run the gauntlet and save lives from Mr. Scratch and his forces to eventually tire him out and kill him along with all the innocent people of the local town of Night Springs caught in the time loop. Mr. Scratch personally corrupts a young woman into being his sexually submissive pet, the woman disgusted and mortified at what things she did for Mr. Scratch when she's finally brought out of his control.

While Alan tries to save lives and escape the time loop over and over, Mr. Scratch leaves him recordings and/or live video feeds to find...in them, Mr. Scratch reveals himself to be a Serial Killer, one who prefers to kill his victims as slowly and brutally as possible with a variety of implements. From what we see in just these videos, Mr. Scratch kidnaps and strangles a man, attacks and kills people at a party, tortures and kills a man while dancing, and uses his status having taken Alan Wake's identity to lure a fan to a motel room and slash her throat. Mr. Scratch's dialogue indicates this is all the norm for him.

Mr. Scratch's threats soon take even more personal tones. He gleefully notes he's going to pretend to be Alan and reunite with his wife Alice, playing the part of a loving husband until he eventually grows tired of it and kills her. He intends to do the same to Alan's best friend Barry, behave "normally" then ruin their relationship before killing him, Mr. Scratch promising Alan all this will come to pass just to hurt him.

Luckily, Alan uses a magical film reel (long damn story) to override the time loop and apparently erase Mr. Scratch from existence, saving the world and his life...with some ambiguity thrown in for extra Mind Screw, of course.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Noooope, Mr. Scratch is a Card-Carrying Villain par excellence, one who dances to music about how insane he is and proudly brags he's a bad person. Not one iota of sympathy is afforded him—even his death is nothing but him screaming that Alan's life is "his" to take, proclaiming that "I have the balls to do what you won't!" before dying.

He's Laughably Evil, but not played for laughs at all.

Agency issues?

Right so here's where issues lie and disqualified him years ago. Mr. Scratch is stated to have been brought to life by Cauldron Lake, created from bad rumors and theories about Alan from the public. As described by Alan himself:

"He's every mean-spirited tabloid story about me, an evil caricature, a creature formed in that vague territory of misconceptions, half-truths and the dark imagination of people who "heard a story about me". An urban legend made flesh. A serial killer. My dark half, brought to life by the power of Cauldron Lake."

At first glance and by the old agency standards, this definitely does give off Made of Evil and disqualifying vibes...my big issue? Mr. Scratch is head-over-heels in love with what he is, and goes out of his way to be even worse while bragging he has his own motives for why he does what he does. What Alan says he is is one thing, but Mr. Scratch has become more than just a "mean-spirited tabloid story"—he proudly brags that his motive is "You're cramping my style! You've got money, fame, everything you could want. But you don't know what to do with it. I'm doing all the things you never had the balls to go for. You know what the real difference is between us? I'm not afraid to be the center of attention!"

Mr. Scratch may have been vaguely formed from mean gossip about Alan, but he goes above and beyond in what he plans to do. He schemes with the Dark Place to invade Earth—not something that any "rumor" could have concocted—he is having an absolute blast with being evil, and he explicitly notes he's capable of "being good" for "as long as I can stand it" just to twist the knife further for his victims. There is absolutely nothing in the text or narrative or dialogue that outright says "Scratch is stuck being evil and couldn't change even he wanted to".

In fact, the other notable bit about Mr. Scratch? He actually has a moment where he shows, plain and fully, that he knows exactly what he is, contemplates changing or at least teaming up with Alan, then doesn't go through with it because he likes being bad more.

"Hey, buddy! I figured I'd take a moment to talk to you! There's a party next door. I'm feeling pretty good! A little beer, a little fun, y'know? It's nice! Listen, this whole thing between us, it's a little weird for me too, y'know? I mean, we don't just look the same, there's a lot we share! I mean (gestures to head ) up here. I know you, right? So I was thinking, maybe we could— (Gets visibly annoyed by increasing loud noise from party) These guys are getting out of control. Look, I feel like we're both victims of circumstance here, and maybe we could both make some kind of effort to... (Annoyance at noise grows more visible until he grabs a telephone cord as a weapon, to which he states in a deadpan:) Nevermind. (Exits the room and screams of terror ensue from next door, then is next seen dancing and torturing a victim while laughing)

I think Mr. Scratch is a case where a supposed "Made of Evil" character can pass by the new standards. The circumstances of his creation are very vague and "he was created as a evil caricature by bad rumors about Alan" doesn't change that he's a fully-realized, flesh-and-blood guy who brags that he's just as real as a normal person, cheerfully noting to Alan "I want you to understand something. I take pride in what I do. We can't both be worthless hacks, can we?"

Another of Mr. Scratch's monologues says plenty too, just to drive the point home:

"I'm not just wearing your face. It goes a lot deeper than that. There's a lot of you in me. All the best parts! At first, I was just an idea. But they kept telling all those stories about you. You already had that rep. And then you disappeared mysteriously...and then the stories about bad, crazy Alan Wake came true. And here I am! That's the best part, isn't it? When that happens? You can always count on Cauldron Lake. I'm just as real as you are. And I'm the improved version! No fears. No doubt. No weaknesses. No self deception here. I don't let anything drag me down! I know you like I know myself. I know it bothers you that I'm like this. That I use your name and crawl my way into your life. But I only do it because... I'M BETTER AT BEING YOU THAN YOU EVER WERE!"

Heinousness?

Vile serial killer and torturer with plenty victims seen onscreen, more bragged about, intentions to ruin Alan's life and murder his wife and best friend, and all while paving the way for the Dark Place to invade the mortal plane and annihilate humanity. Yah he's bad.

Final Verdict?

I think, with all taken into account and the agency rules in mind, Mr. Scratch is likely good to keep. He knows what he is, he admits he enjoys being what he is, he goes out of his way to be worse than what he is, and he has moments that show he could make an effort to stop being what he is only to just find evil "more fun!"

I say Keep, but can also understand any hesitance, so shoot for it!

Edited by Ravok on Aug 20th 2021 at 2:05:30 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#276060: Aug 20th 2021 at 11:47:04 AM

Yeah, the novel and comic versions of Strack—while clearly being very similar—are wtitten by different people. I'm fine with just the one entry though.

While I'm fine with the Durant quote too, I think we can do better.

Again, is that Strack quote I'm thinking of about him killing his wife in the comic and/or novel too?

[down]I am.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Aug 20th 2021 at 12:17:32 PM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#276061: Aug 20th 2021 at 11:59:04 AM

Yes to Mr. Scratch.

Again everyone cool with us making the Actors Who Played And Fought C Ms include voice acting.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#276067: Aug 20th 2021 at 12:53:56 PM

If the dude is legit Bragging about being his own person who's an A-Hole in his own right then honestly I think he would keep even with the recent Agency update. Sounds like the work Clarifying he just chooses to be an evil Bastard, like that one work where Mr.Hyde counted cause they had him give this monologue on 'Oh BTW an evil half is still there own person I just choose to be a Douche'

[tup] to Scratch.

Bow to the Prototype
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#276068: Aug 20th 2021 at 12:54:29 PM

[tup] Mr. [Scratching Sound]

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#276069: Aug 20th 2021 at 1:08:01 PM

Sure to Scratch.

New Zenescope one:

What's the work?

Black Sable is a non-Grimm Fairytales-verse story here, set far in the future where mankind stretches beyond the stars...but with that comes piracy. Our heroine is "Black" Sable, a notorious pirate and former slave who is in opposition to "The Corporation," a powerful organization that runs most of the galaxy...rescuing a cargo of slaves, Sable soon learns of a great treasure in an ancient civilization's lost fuel cell and sets to reclaim it....but one villain afoot?

Major Karr of the corporation

Who is Karr?

A beautiful, icy woman introduced interrogating a group of pirates with a fist sized, spider-like creature known as an "Eater" for its incredibly fast metabolism, Karr lets it eat through one man's guts before the others give her answers. Asked what happens to the prisoners? "The eater is still hungry. Let it feed." Karr is seen to run mining operations with mass slavery, backbreaking labor with massive casualties. One luckless slave tripping and hurting himself? She has the guy executed on the spot and orders an end to the pirates, namely the one pirate more feared than Sable: the cyborg Captain Blood (Sable's long-lost father, though neither knows it).

A raid of sharklike aliens called the Mar complucates matters...especially as a traitor within the Corporation is giving them coordinates to attack. An internal investigator named Stanas begins looking into things to Karr's frustration...of course, the traitor is Karr, who gives King Kar (I know, confusing) the coordinates to launch a bloody crusade throughout the galaxy...relizing Stanas is getting close to the truth, Karr tries to have him killed and blows up the Coroporation capital ship to cover her tracks....killing not just corporate officers but thousands of innocents as well, fleeing to the Mar homeworld to set them against mankind.

Sable and crews end up launching an offensive to kill the Mar attacks, ending as their king is killed...Karr tries to slip away, realizing she's going to be a wanted woman.

Except at her ship? A very angry Officer Stanas (who did I mention is like a seven foot tall mass of angry red muscle who can summon energy blasts) is waiting for her, to Karr's horror...with Karr's ship last seen a smoking ruin as Stanas bids sable farewell.

Mitigating issues?

Karr starts off a pretty high ranking corporation officer and while she's implied to not exactly be too distinct, her actions are nasty. She gives a horrific death to captured pirates, runs nightmarish operations where she has slaves worked to death and executed...

But then goes over and above in the matter. Karr betrays the Corporation, blows up its command center and gives the captured fuel cell to the Mar to allow them to butcher most of the galaxy. Why? So she can rule the remnants of mankind herself.

Conclusion?

Easy keeper.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#276070: Aug 20th 2021 at 1:13:54 PM

Yeah to Scratch and Karr

Cutegirl920fire Player 222 from the Squid Games (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: Paris holds the key to my heart
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#276074: Aug 20th 2021 at 1:21:24 PM

I remember Scratch. Yes to him.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#276075: Aug 20th 2021 at 1:28:09 PM

[tup] Scratch (I need to replay that game one of these days) and Karr

It's Spooky Month!

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