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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#27526: Jul 8th 2014 at 11:36:58 AM

About the Gregor Clegane entry on Monster.A Song Of Ice And Fire: I'd like to change the sentence: "Gregor is introduced in the Hand's tournament where he murders another contender via splintered lance" to "Gregor is introduced in the Hand's tournament where he kills another contender via splintered lance without an ounce of remorse."

Despite WMG there isn't any indication that he intended to kill the contender, but he sure as hell didn't care that he did.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#27527: Jul 8th 2014 at 12:08:04 PM

[up][up]Thank you. Can you also add this sentence by Occasional Exister, to the end of the Horrigan entry.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#27529: Jul 8th 2014 at 3:17:10 PM

So, Lost God 2000, what do you have to say about Black Wolf?

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#27530: Jul 8th 2014 at 3:56:22 PM

I cut the barney examples and took the quote to the edit request thread.

jjj
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#27531: Jul 8th 2014 at 8:20:06 PM

For a potential write up...

  • The Flight Before Christmas: Black Wolf is the alpha of a bloodthirsty pack of wolves who open up the movie attempting to kill and eat the young Niko. Black Wolf, stressing over the lack of food, attacks a completely harmless poodle who strays into his territory, who accidentally gives him the idea to kill and eat Santa Claus and his reindeer. Black Wolf then gets the idea to pose as Santa's reindeer in the process so he and his pack can sneak into the houses of humans. The plan was to slaughter every child in the world to curb his hunger. Black Wolf tracks the reindeer down, proclaims himself the new Santa Claus, and prepares to eat the reindeer. Interrupted by Niko, Black Wolf attempts to murder him too out of frustration, going as far to pursue him on top of a flying sleigh miles in the air. Even as he fell to his inevitable Karmic Disney Villain Death, Black Wolf dragged Niko's best friend Julius down with him, stating his joy that at least he wouldn't die hungry.

edited 24th Oct '17 8:46:58 PM by Scraggle

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#27532: Jul 8th 2014 at 8:44:18 PM

[up]Okay, I'm sorry, Dread. Nice rewrite, though.

Cakeman Since: Dec, 2012
#27533: Jul 8th 2014 at 9:36:48 PM

According to the Cannibal Holocaust page, Alan Yates did seemingly show concern after Faye was captured by the cannibals, though considering Mark was able to persuade him to tape her being gruesomely murdered, he probably lusted for her more than anything else...

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#27535: Jul 9th 2014 at 7:45:51 AM

Edit to [up][up][up][up] (BTW, is BW just hungry, or is it more than that?):

  • The Flight Before Christmas: Black Wolf is the alpha of a bloodthirsty pack of wolves who open up the movie attempting to kill and eat the young Niko. Black Wolf, stressing over the lack of food, attacks a completely harmless poodle who strays into his territory; the poodle, to save his own life, gives Black Wolf the idea to kill and eat Santa Claus and his reindeer. Black Wolf then gets the idea to pose as Santa's reindeer in the process so he and his pack can sneak into the houses of humans. The plan was to slaughter every child in the world to curb his hunger. Black Wolf tracks the reindeer down, proclaims himself the new Santa Claus, and prepares to eat the reindeer. Interrupted by Niko, Black Wolf attempts to murder him too out of frustration, going as far to pursue him on top of a flying sleigh miles in the air. Even as he fell to his inevitable Karmic Disney Villain Death, Black Wolf dragged Niko's best friend Julius down with him, stating his joy that at least he wouldn't die hungry; he would have killed Julius if not for Niko saving him.

edited 9th Jul '14 7:46:16 AM by ACW

finalsurvivor1 Since: Jan, 2012
#27536: Jul 9th 2014 at 9:26:15 AM

Just a note for Gaim: Someone jumped the gun and already added Mitsuzane to the YMMV page. Cut and PM the poster, correct?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#27537: Jul 9th 2014 at 9:29:07 AM

Yep, ~zxynoxia added it. I'll ask them to come here and explain.

Also, since this thread can probably use it - the ~Tropers/TroperName or ~Tropers/{{Tropername}} markup can be used to alert people to posts which contain the markup. Works only in the addpost not the editpost function, though.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
zxynoxia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#27538: Jul 9th 2014 at 11:22:47 AM

I added Mitsuzane as all who have watched the latest episode in a group watch reached a consensus that he is unredeemable. I may have jumped the gun, but I really cannot see a different ending.

edited 9th Jul '14 11:23:17 AM by zxynoxia

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#27540: Jul 9th 2014 at 12:44:43 PM

Black Wolf only cared for himself, and thought of all the other wolves as being below him.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#27541: Jul 9th 2014 at 12:45:44 PM

I already added Metal Face to the YMMV for Xenoblade, so all that needs to happen is he needs to be added to the main video game page under Zanza.

It looks like, despite the fact he only got a few votes, we're all in agreement that Metal Face is "worthy" of complete monster status.

We probably should look over Dickson too, since he's Zanza's top enforcer, and it is him who is responsible for Zanza's return. Personally, as big of a douche as he is, I'm going to say no to Dickson because even though he readied Shulk's body to be possessed by Zanza, he lacks the onscreen murders that Zanza and Metal Face have.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#27542: Jul 9th 2014 at 1:31:52 PM

ACW@ Good edits to the writeup, though once more, a little detail wrong. The poodle giving Black Wolf the idea to eat Santa Claus was completely accidental. He just took the idea, ran with it, and then added the little detail of all the children of the world to his bucket list. His primary motivation is pretty much pure savagery and gluttony. And for any and all positive qualities, he had a pack, but he thought them an incompetent lot. He wasn't exactly a Bad Boss, but it's obvious he didn't think too highly of them. And as for White Wolf, we've seen Avenging the Villain before, and knowing Black Wolf's opinion of his pack, we can also infer he had similar thoughts about his sister. I could be wrong, because the relationship isn't exactly put into any kind of focus.

edited 9th Jul '14 1:33:37 PM by Scraggle

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#27543: Jul 9th 2014 at 1:50:05 PM

Accidentally gave him the idea? And again, hunger doesn't strike me as a motive. Now, if it's A God Am I that everyone else is just food to him, that's different.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#27544: Jul 9th 2014 at 1:52:16 PM

He has moments resembling A God Am I when he proclaims himself the new Santa Claus. It's not exactly enough to be stretched out to his entire motive, but Black Wolf isn't a Generic Doomsday Villain.

edited 9th Jul '14 1:53:11 PM by Scraggle

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#27545: Jul 9th 2014 at 2:27:27 PM

Seems that Black Wolf is an even bigger monster than I remember.

BTW, remember those Lion King Adventures examples from a few months ago? I checked out the fanfic, and I actually think The Writer might count. He is very similar to the Nibiru Entity. He is an evil god who created the world Simba and his friends live in, and he had been responsible for every bad thing that ever happened to them, and thus everything bad that happened in the fanfic. He had been trying to ruin their lives and kill them just for fun, and at the end of the story, he enters the world to kill them himself and rule the world as a god so he can spread death and destruction.

I know That the original post was pretty messy, especially since it listed so many examples, but I can tell you he is the only possible candidate.

jjj
LordXavius Doesn't even like this username from many fandoms Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Doesn't even like this username
#27546: Jul 9th 2014 at 2:54:04 PM

Now that sounds really meta. And a bit self-deprecating. Still, could be good CM material.

edited 9th Jul '14 2:56:59 PM by LordXavius

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#27547: Jul 9th 2014 at 2:57:52 PM

[up] The author says that The Writer is meant to represent his dark side. He still insists it's a different person though.

edited 9th Jul '14 3:02:12 PM by bobg

jjj
LordXavius Doesn't even like this username from many fandoms Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Doesn't even like this username
#27548: Jul 9th 2014 at 3:24:46 PM

[up] Good way to deal with your dark side, I suppose!

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#27549: Jul 9th 2014 at 3:36:08 PM

[up] Guess so.

Like I sais he's pretty much the fics equivalent of The Nibiru Entity, and we all remember how bad that thing was.

jjj
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#27550: Jul 9th 2014 at 8:45:12 PM

Have we all finished The Wolf Among Us yet?


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