During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Oh, someone proposed a Playstation 1 game last page. What a coincidence.
Tonight's Work to Propose...
Apocalypse
is a 1998 third-person shooter for the PlayStation, a straightforward action game where your character gets to run, shoot, destroy, rinse and repeat. It is worth noting, however, that the game's hero is voiced and mo-capped by Bruce Willis
, using the then-newfangled technology where motion-capture dots attached to actor's faces and limbs can be translated directly into 3D-models.
Den Of Geek
claims this is a "forgotten" game, but come on, it's Korben Dallas fighting the forces of Satan... what more do players want? This game kicks ass.
Set in the distant future where flying cars and laser weapons exist (similar to The Fifth Element), Willis' character, Trey Kincaid, discovers his ex-colleague and superior, a powerful CEO-turned-cult leader, is secretly a harbinger of the incoming doomsday. Considering the title is "Apocalypse"....
Who's the Candidate?
The Reverend, a charismatic and important public figure, is actually the leader of an Apocalyptic Cult. Learning of a prophecy revolving around the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse will walk the Earth, the Reverend uses his occult knowledge, combined with science, to summon the horsemen — War, Plague, Beast and Death — in exchange for ultimate power and to ensure the inevitable doomsday come to pass. So After the End, not only will he be the only human alive, but he'll also rule over the four horsemen and what's left of the world.
Trey Kincaid is the Reverend's former colleague, a SpecOPs soldier who found out the Reverend's plans; the Reverend's retaliation is to frame Kincaid for being a spy, resulting in Kincaid thrown into a corrupt, high-security prison under his ownership. Kincaid escapes the prison in level one, and while shooting through the Reverend's guards, Kincaid uncovers cells filled with the Reverend's test subjects — being an Evilutionary Biologist in addition to occultic knowledge, many of the Reverend's victims have weapons grafted to their body parts and have lose sapience, attacking everything – including Kincaid — on sight. Kincaid escapes into a manhole outside the prison leading to a mutant-infested sewer, contaminated by chemicals from the Reverend's lab...
Learning Kincaid's escape, the Reverend sends the army, who's under his control, on a city-wide manhunt, leading to various levels with Kincaid battling the army throughout the city. Kincaid rendezvous with an old friend, Lawrence, who's aware of Kincaid's innocence, but it turns out Lawrence was corrupted by the Reverend and possessed by one of the four horsemen, Death. Kincaid has no choice but to fight Lawrence, who assumes the form of a giant Grim Reaper who can summon zombies.
Defeating Death, Kincaid recover clues from Lawrence's apartment leading to Kincaid's Old Flame, a stripper named Mary. But once more, oh no, the Reverend is a step ahead of Kincaid and had converted Mary into his second horseman, Plague, knowing Kincaid will seek her out. Upon arrival, hordes of zombies and demons shows up, Mary turns into a giant green hag who spits acid...
After Kincaid defeats Plague and her zombies, he found a way accessing the Reverend's quarters, a War factory full of robotic security. Battling hordes of robots, Kincaid prevents the Reverend from escaping, forcing the Reverend to reveal his true form — War, the third horseman, and an Advancing Boss of Doom at that. Kincaid causes War to fall into a Lava Pit, the Reverend seemed destroyed after drowning in molten metal... but moments later a news broadcast had the “President of the USA” declaring Kincaid to be a national enemy, over the killing of the Reverend.
Kincaid deduces the President is a Greater-Scope Villain, perhaps the vassal of the last horseman, Beast, so he visits the White House, the game's second-to-last stage. Upon arrival... all hell had broken loose around the Oval Office, the military are now apocalypse-worshipping Satanists, there are demons of all shapes and sizes roaming around the White House (which Kincaid kills en-masse), the Secret Service agents have goat-heads and can summon fireballs, and the White House's lawn is now a Platform Hell over a lava lake. Kincaid made it into the White House's main office to confront the President in the final level; the President is indeed revealed as the fourth horseman, Beast.
Except nyah... Beast, the Final Boss (and a Damage-Sponge Boss at that) finally goes down, but reverting to human form, Kincaid sees that it's NOT the President — its the Reverend, who somehow escaped his lava death as War (Actually a Doombot, yeah) and is impersonating the President the whole time. As Kincaid empties his gun into the Reverend's face, the Reverend's true form after selling his soul manifests — a series of tentacles made of light constricts Kincaid, cue our hero having Glowing Eyes of Doom, it's implied that Kincaid is now the last vassal of the apocalypse.
And then the game ends. A massive Downer Ending.
'Any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
As an evil cult leader who wants the apocalypse to happen, a master manipulator, who will gladly doom humanity in exchange for power? Easy pass. No Freudian Excuse either, other than his power-hungry nature.
How About the Heinousness Standard?
The Four Horsemen are heralds of the apocalypse, but they aren't sentient; and being Made of Evil, they're being harvested by the Reverend for his own benefits, so nothing much to compare.
The President? A mere puppet.
Yeah, the Reverend passes whatever heinousness levels, easily besting whatever little competition he has.
Should We Count The Reverend, Then?
And here I was thinking there was an unwritten rule stating A-list action movie stars in works inspired by action movies couldn't be put to a Downer Ending
Anyways, yes to the good Reverend/Cult Leader Zorg! (If only they could have gotten Gary Oldman for that bit.)
Any thoughts on this image
? Io, it's good, just sells it out entirely.
Also think this quote for NOS-4-R-2 works honestly, despite it's length. Any opinions on that also:
"The Little One may be designed specifically to endure explosive and aggressive damage as part of his job, but there is a limit. There are a few ways to seriously hurt or even destroy him beyond any hope of recovery. And I just so happen to know exactly how to do so. Such a small component, hidden in the most durable part of his entire body. His artificial intelligence chip. His most basic programming, all of his experiences that he used to learn and grow, every memory of his existence, and his entire personality. All of it stored on one little chip. I could destroy every other piece of the Little One's body and Star Command could still bring him back. But one deep scratch across the surface of the microchip… Or a little pressure, just enough to snap it in half… It would be so easy to permanently destroy him. So easy to kill him. But that would be too simple, destroying his artificial intelligence chip while he's not awake. Another method to destroy him permanently would be to drain him completely of energy and wait. The information will begin to corrupt and become erased if he goes without power for too long and he doesn't undergo a proper shutdown sequence. That will work on any robot, though the lengths of time required to make sure nothing is recoverable varies. And perhaps in some circumstances, those plucky little LG Ms of yours might be able to undo some of the damage. But I wouldn't count on it Lesson three, the main ways to cause pain to a robot aren't always impressive. He built to be destroyed in battle regularly, after all. It certainly hurts him, but it would be a quick pain. Something mostly on the surface and perhaps even ignorable to an extent. What I'm discussing is something far more intense and entertaining!"
Btw,
to Sarge and Rev
Edited by The-Scarecrow on Aug 15th 2021 at 9:06:44 PM
Yes to the Reverend.
Edited by Bullman on Aug 15th 2021 at 12:14:11 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadYes to the Reverend...isn't FAMINE the 4th horseman?
Not a big fan of the new image. Lucien looks stupid, and the victim doesn't look as scared as Cami does.
Then again, Darksiders, besides War and Death, somehow has Fury and Strife.
Though apparently, Conquest is the original and replaced sometimes by Pestilence.
Edited by ACW on Aug 15th 2021 at 1:36:04 PM
Eh, beats me, the game refers to her as Plague (shrugs)
EDIT: 30 seconds into this clip
Edited by RobertTYL on Aug 16th 2021 at 1:35:19 AM

Glad to see this thread is still having regular Wall of Text (s)