During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The story has no other villain, she tricked the heroes into thinking they would die no matter what they did, it was very much described how Undyne was doing, Loren was trying to manipulate Papyrus into thinking he was a burden, she tried to kill Papyrus with a bomb, she gets really personal with the heroes (even when it comes to things such as Asgore killing children), and leaves glow-in-the-dark stars on the bodies of the victims as part of her obsession about stars. I say she's heinous enough.
Abstain on the above
@Nerd
Clu also sets up a police state and has programs kill eachother, sometimes doing so himself, and Clu also committed mass Genocide on the Isos, kills a Ton of people himself, turned one program into a horrific Virus monster and Destroys a city as Bonus stuff has revealed, and planned to launch a Full invasion on the non Grid world to Eradicate Humanity.
While he may not keep himself, Clu makes the Heinous standard his bitch and sharing a Tier with him like MCP does means you gotta REALLY push it.
Edited by Snoketrope on Aug 7th 2021 at 3:31:51 AM
Bow to the PrototypeGiven that in Undertale, in "The Game where no one has to die", even a Genocide Run Frisk isn't exactly friendly due to the player's action (and even then, some of them chose to do that out of curiosity)... Changed my mind, abstain.
Eh, good enough.
I don't know where did you pull Genocide-Frisk out of. The Genocide Run isn't referenced in any way, and as far as we know Frisk has always been a kind person in the AAO universe. Given how it's on the surface, it must mean that Asriel did his thing, but all of it was reversed and he isn't even mentioned.
@RK 93: Ok nevermind. Still gonna abstain though.
Speaking of Nasuverse, how many CM entries the entire franchise had so far?
Edited by Siegfried1337 on Aug 7th 2021 at 4:18:38 AM
Eh, good enough.7
Zouken Matou; Ryuunosuke Uryuu; Celenike Icecolle Yggdmillenia; Ashiya Douman; Kiara Sessyoin; Manga Michael Roa Valdmjong and Cornelius Alba.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Btw, what's the average number of entries need for a CM page? And if we decide to add a Complete Monster page for the Nasuverse, what image should we use alongside a quote?
Eh, good enough.As someone familiar to Great Ace Attorney, gonna give Jezail
, but Magnus an abstain. Magnus is definitely evil with a plan to essentially sell government secrets for potential profit threatening a potential collapse, this is not fridge but an actual plot point brought up on why the government was heavily investigating the case, but regardless let's see if you guys think he qualifies or not.
Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Aug 7th 2021 at 5:34:18 AM
Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - GiselleStrongheart seems worse than Jezail, WIE or not.
EDIT: Also, for indexing, do we wanna include Other Media? There are at least 3 examples (Doctor Who; Highlander; Metal Gear. Also Disney if you include Haunted mansion).
Edited by ACW on Aug 7th 2021 at 10:45:10 AM
- Bottom Feeder (2007): Maxine Krendal is a sociopathic government agent. Pretending to work for Charles Deaver, Krendal brutally and sadistically beats Dr. Nathanael Leech nearly to death and leaves him trapped in an underground complex. Intentionally administering his healing drug incorrectly, she condemns him to 24 hours of agonizing hunger. Discovering a salvage crew in the tunnels, she orders them all killed. When confronted by the monster that Nathanael had become, she sacrifices her partner as bait for him and leaves him to be torn apart. Despite the danger and suffering involved, Krendal still desires his drug to create an army of monstrous Super Soldiers. Despite being a government agent, Krendal enjoys every second of what she does.
I'm just gonna abstain on the Ace Attorney duo (not familiar enough with the work's heinous standard) and the Undertale one (not sure if she passes baseline).
Quick question - for those familiar with the Dead Rising series, would the version of TK seen in Dead Rising 2: Off the Record be worth a separate post? I tried even finding the discussion on the original to see if it came up, but I can't find if he was proposed or grandfathered in. Either way, since his role in the outbreak is much more active (he actively supplies the bomb and convinces the bomber rather than just sitting back and letting it happen), his capture of Rebecca goes slightly different (he demands a ransom, then has the Twins attack Frank anyway when he brings it) and his attack on Frank and Rebecca in Overtime is a bit more brutal (Rebecca's recovering from a gunshot wound and he puts Frank in a gladiator match of zombies), might it be unique enough to be worth a post?
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Aug 7th 2021 at 11:40:23 AM
@Siegfried 1337: You're referring to Aurora and maybe Vortigen, aren't you?
Edit: Abstain on Jezille. No to Magnus.
Anyway, it's been 2 weeks since the climax of this online novel I have been following was released, there was an epilogue released 3 days later, but it doesn't contribute much to the overall plot, so I think I am in the clear.
What is the work?
After the Revolution is an online novel/podcast, written by Robert Evans, host of podcasts It Could Happen Here and Behind the Bastards, about a second American Civil War and people who have to survive it. Different factions are vying for power and one of them is a Christian fascist movement called the Heavenly Kingdom that has conquered a large part of the US and wishes to expand its territory and I am going to talk about the single most prominent member of this regime.
Who is Alexander Dubois? What has he done?
Alexander Dubois is a young man who is also a senior official in the Heavenly Kingdom, he is in charge of the Sons of Jacob movement and the main selector for the Kingdom's Storming Battalion.
Alexander and other Sons of Jacob lure young women to the Heavenly Kingdom through online trickery, pretending to be kind and compassionate and saying they want to build a more Godly place on Earth, but the women arrive, the mask drops. Alexander lures a young woman named Sasha from the American Federation to the Heavenly Kingdom, saying that he loved her online, but she meets him in person, he reveals she will be his third wife, Sasha rejects him after that, but Alexander and his underlings constantly harass her.
Alexander and his underlings go to the House of Miriam where Sasha and other young women are staying and forces women to marry one of them, whether they want to or not and commits marital rape after the forced marriage is concluded, Alexander does this to Sasha's friends Anne and Susannah to married to some of his underlings.
When Sasha shows interest in a young man named Manny (who is secretly a spy sent to rescue some hostages the Kingdom is holding), Alexander forcible recruits him into the Kingdom's Storming Battalion, with Alexander having the power to force anyone he wishes into the battalion, but he always picks nonwhite people for the battlion.
This is where the Kingdom's darkest secret is revealed, the Storming Battalion takes any nonwhite recruits into the Kingdom and removes their brains, and installs them into drones and autonomous cars that can bypass jamming and drive-through checkpoints that scan for human drivers. This allows the Kingdom to employ a large drone fleet to attack other factions in surprise attacks.
Manny is saved by his ally, a genetically engineered superhuman called Roland. Roland saves Sasha too and they go to rescue the superhuman hostages. But Alexander is ready for them, attacking Roland with a pair of stealth armor suits when they go to the hospital the hostages are being held, killing Sasha's boss Dr. Brandt in the process. The armored troops have Roland pinned down, but Sasha sneaks up and brutally beats Alexander to death with a helmet.
Does have a Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
Nah, he is a racist and sexist and his holier then thou attitude is not redeeming at all.
Is he heinous by the standard of work?
This is where things get tricky, this is a bleak world.
Roland becomes a pacifist because he is addicted to war, combat releases drugs in his brain that is addictive and he is reluctant to go into combat because of it, Manny guilt trips him into fighting against the Kingdom's advance on Austin and he is addicted to war, he continues to attack the Kingdom's forces when they retreating, to where the other superhuman soldiers have to restraint him. Roland ends up trying to kill himself.
Even worse is Jim, another superhuman and an anarchist who killed the wealthy (including children) in the past and Jim is a scumbag who no one really likes but he is tolerated as an ally against the Kingdom and Roland seems to remember Jim ordering him to nuke Dallas in the past, which is why Roland tried to kill himself. But the other superhumans are anarchists too and they think Jim is a scumbag and are horrified by Roland attacking retreating soldiers, so they do not give these guys a pass.
But Alexander has a nasty niche, being a mass rapist and someone who sentences nonwhite recruits to a fate worse than death to further the Kingdom's interests. He is not a powerful superhuman like Roland or Jim.
Final Verdict?
He may count, if you think he is heinous enough for this setting.
Edited by Overlord on Aug 7th 2021 at 9:10:54 AM
Definite no to Jezille. Loathsome Hate Sink, but nowhere near heinous enough. She kills one guy. That's it. We see nothing about her previous assassinations.
Abstain on Magnus
Forgot that I had multiple tabs open on the thread, so after I left one comment, I realized I still had the one in the other tab, lol.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Aug 7th 2021 at 12:12:34 PM
erazor0707: Yep, but someone almost added an unauthorized entry too early, though thankfully it's been deleted. I'm just asking for anyone to check whether or not they can potentially qualify for CM status and wait until two weeks after August 4.
Also, why did you double post Awesomekid 42?
Edited by Siegfried1337 on Aug 7th 2021 at 9:10:24 AM
Eh, good enough.

I've gone through part of the author's profile. They don't have any particular incredible biases according to their profile, so
to Loren.
Edited by Siegfried1337 on Aug 7th 2021 at 3:04:51 AM
Eh, good enough.