During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Julius
Echoing what Username said I wonder if Kid Buu can count with the new rule on those that are ambiguously Made of Evil?
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffOkay, I'm sorry, I'm not reading a 2900+ word EP.
EDIT: Shit, that probably makes me a hypocrite, since my EP for Willow Mackie was similar. I'll read it later.
Lighty, any of your writeups spoilers for the YMMV pages. I'm guessing Sheriff Nick...Skye as well?
Edited by ACW on Aug 4th 2021 at 5:04:59 AM
I also got the idea he genuinely doesn't know what he's doing is wrong which fits with what we see in Fat Buu when we first meet him (and makes sense as he is Buu's original incarnation ).
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."![]()
Kid Buu did try to blow up the Afterlife at one point. He also came way closer to ending all life in the universe than Super Buu who's only successful kills were almost everyone on Earth while Kid Buu successfully destroyed hundreds of planets.
But yeah making it case for him having agency is definitely going to be tougher than Zorc (I haven't seen Zorc's arc though).
Yes to Fagin.
Just saw the latest episode of Fanscription and future is letting me handle it. Do you guys mind if I discuss it early as usual?
Edited by Bullman on Aug 4th 2021 at 4:31:22 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadYes to the bandit trio, yes to Fagin.
I'm gonna pencil myself in for the next Kamen Rider series, Kamen Rider Revice.
Yes to the Bandits.
Edited by Bullman on Aug 4th 2021 at 5:13:42 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadFound this on Older Than Dirt:
- Complete Monster: The most heinous characters played seriously with no redeeming or altruistic traits. Villainous figures who are pure evil is one of the oldest tropes out there. The oldest listed example is the God of Evil Apep/Apophis from Egyptian Mythology, who was worshiped against since the days of the New Kingdom (c. 1550 BC – c. 1077 BC).
I think Mesopotamian culture predates Egyptian culture, so maybe change this entry with Lamashtu instead?
Has Juno Skinner been brought up before? Pretty sure I saw mentions of her having been brought up in the past but remaining unresolved because of tied votes.
If she was downvoted though, then anyone okay with a reproposal, since she tries to enable mass murder for profit and overall has enough independence from Aziz to stand out?
Aziz has WIE motives, so he doesn’t count… Juno, on the other hand, lacks any redeeming qualities, gloating that she’s Only in It for the Money.

I can edit stuff soon, but also calling Nic Cage's next film, Prisoners of the Ghostland and yea to Fagin
Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 4th 2021 at 1:50:00 AM