During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Dimitri
Doom quote
Nothing really to say here, let's just do it.
What's the Work
Lucifer (2016) is a series about the Devil solving crime out of amusement and interest in the detective he's helping.
Who is Pete Daily and what has he done?
Pete Daily is the secondary antagonist of Season 5's first half.
In his childhood, Pete's mother would constantly scream at him and love her lily garden more than him, leading Pete to turn into a Serial Killer who killed four loud and talkative women by cutting their vocal cords, leaving them alive but in pain, before then killing them. This also inspired some madman named Les Klumpsky into killing two women in the same style, although in a much shittier fashion, thanks to which he was caught way before Pete.
At one point, Pete met and befriended Ella Lopez, who fit the "loud and talkative women" criteria of his victims - But, everything she said was nice, which lead Pete to start dating her in hopes of feeling anything. But he failed. At one point, in the episode "Spoiler Alert" (the actual name), Ella found out that Pete is "the original "Whisper Killer" (the nickname they gave for Klumpsky), and he tried to kill her after she found out. But he failed, got arrested, and is now sitting in jail.
Freudian Excuse / Mitigating Factors
His mother screaming at him is far too petty to justify killing four women, not to mention that Ella herself points out that Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse. Besides this, nothing; His love for Ella isn't genuine and he is pure Faux Affably Evil.
Heinous Standard
Now, this is the reason why the previous candidates of mine kept getting rejected. Pete, however? He kills four women, cuts their vocal cords, watches them choke on their blood (he himself says this is the only moment he feels anything) and inspired a copycat who killed two people the same way (and thus it links back to Pete himself). Not to mention that he temporarily broke Ella and led her to believe everyone she falls in love with is a bad guy.
Final Verdict
Somewhat leaning towards a
.
Yup. Despite there being a Victim of the Week in almost every episode, most of the villains don't go any further than one or two, maybe three if lucky - This includes Arc Villain-s. People with a higher body count either have more resources (Goddess is Exactly What It Says on the Tin and Dromo is a demon) or aren't as cruel as Pete is.
Edited by RK93 on Aug 1st 2021 at 7:59:31 PM
Tentative "yes" to Pete. In think he just makes it with his cruel M.O and overal is worse than most human criminals minus Julian and Carlisle. I should add that he has a secret garden where he cultivates his signature flowers which strongly implies that he wasn't going to stop at 4.
Edited by Silverblade2 on Aug 1st 2021 at 8:00:58 PM
The only thing about Pete that gives me pause is Malcolm’s body count since Pete is also in multiple episodes, but I guess Malcolm has just enough extra time to not hold them against each other and Pete’s extra cruelty gives him a slight push - tentative yes to Pete.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Aug 1st 2021 at 2:19:20 PM
Whoa, Drowtales ended after 20 or so years? Wow.
Looks like both she and the other CM got appropriately brutal deaths.
Pete...MAYBE. Though considering the other keeper runs an entire freaking Human Trafficking ring, I dunno...though it seems like he JUST does enough, so consider me a hesitant yes.
Edited by ACW on Aug 1st 2021 at 2:24:03 PM
There wasn't anything wrong I just discovered the same image was on MoralEventHorizon.Animated Films.
Alright, here are the drafts for Chara and Pete. Do they look good?
- Undertale fanfic Comic Sins
: Chara is the true mastermind behind the resets, and has been slowly manipulating Frisk throughout timelines to give them control of their body and powers. Upon achieving in this goal, they slaughtered every monster they came across with the intentions of wiping out all of monsterkind. When Sans enters a different timeline to kill that version of Frisk, Chara uses the opportunity to to kill their own adoptive father, Asgore. Encountering Sans and the alternative-timeline Frisk, they mock the skeleton about how he chose a weak variant that doesn't have the same powers they have, before trying to kill the human. At the end of the day, Chara gives up on their goal and leave the timeline, although they make it clear that they won't reset and that everyone that they killed will stay dead, including Sans' brother Papyrus.
- Lucifer (2016) ( "Our Mojo" and "Spoiler Alert"): Pete Daily is the true identity of the Whisper Killer, a Serial Killer notorious for cutting women's vocal cords and leaving them to choke on their blood. Killing four women in this style, Pete's actions inspire Les Klumpsky to start murdering women in the same style and pin all of Pete's murders on himself, making Pete responsible for all of Klumpsky's murders. When his girlfriend Ella Lopez finds out about Pete's secret, he tries to strangle her to death. When Pete explains to Ella that he kills women because of his abusive mother, Ella shows no sympathy, saying that having a crappy childhood is not an excuse for murdering people.
Edited by RK93 on Aug 1st 2021 at 9:28:31 PM
