During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Frost. Yeah I remember him
The thing I have a problem with is him tearing up because it indicates sadness and potentially guilt and it's not portrayed as disingenuous like say Henry crying because he thinks he should. That said, Ravok believes it's portrayed as him getting upset because he didn't get his way and I can definitely see that given what we get beforehand. With that, I'll say
to Frost.
Good movie. Parts of it messed with my head though like Looper did.
- Severed Strings is a cannibalistic Serial Killer. Known as the Beast Killer, he was known for mutilating his victims until they looked like an animal had mauled them. He would eventually become a Skin Walker by murdering and eating his own sister before slaughtering his hometown during a sandstorm. Over the centuries, he would amass a body count in the thousands and every hundred years wipe out another town like he had his own, as well as possess people and make them kill their loved ones and poison towns using powdered infant remains. When he discovers Vinyl Scratch his latest string of murders, he would try twice to possess Octavia and make her kill Vinyl out of pure sadism.
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I mean that at the least is how I saw it back then that it was meant to be an Alas, Poor Villain. I don't think that now though because it's not that complex a moment really in context. Or Derek Frost is not complex with the context provided and just a destructive and self-absorbed individual.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jul 27th 2021 at 9:59:38 AM
Yes people have been disqualified by single lines before, but those were actually disqualifying by our standards, like "I love my brother" or "I was abused as a child and am killing people who remind me of my mother."
Saying "this world sucks and I'm gonna reduce it to rubble to rebuild" doesn't even fit the standards of WIE. There's no talk of it being a better world for people, no "It's a Necessary Evil", just a smug asshole with notable egotistical traits proclaiming that he hates the world and is gonna blow it shit.
If someone does wanna interpret WIE from it, go right ahead and I'm gonna leave it at this, but I do find it very headscratching myself because it doesn't fit the standards of WIE even.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!I remember proposing Frost a while back. I'll give my
to Frost as he's easily heinous, has personality and lacks any redeeming or well-intentioned qualities
Frost.
One from a Reddit creepypasta
Edited by ASghhrv6ub on Jul 27th 2021 at 12:34:36 PM
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me BlaineYes to Frost.
I watched The Invisible Man (2020) this week and felt that Adrian was an overall easy yes as a sadistic and murderous abuser, but there is one scene that seemed off to me from the movie. It's in the second half of this clip.
Adrian non fatally shoots a security guard and seems like he's going to execute the defenseless begging man, but he doesn't. He just drops the guns and moves on, while fully letting the guy see him exposed in his undamaged suit. I would understand if this was purely on a whim, but he has no reason to let the guy leave especially since the guard is an eye witness now. I read the effort post and this wasn't brought up, as maybe Lighty felt it wasn't important enough to mention, but the scene clashes with the kind of person Adrian is presented as throughout the movie. Can this purely be chalked up to a Complete Monster sparing someone on a whim even though letting this guy live is purely detrimental to him?
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.I'm fine with that scene, it feels totally whim-based. Adrian earlier pretends to spare a guy only to shoot him in the back for the lulz, him choosing to genuinely spare another guy when the threat is always there of "maybe he'll change his mind" but he's focused on his new victims feels purely a whim to me.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Oh and also there was a pragmatic reason for it, he was dropping the act and seeking to frame his brother, he needed eyewitnesses besides Cecilia for this. So yeah, even if you wanna be sketch about whims, there ya go.
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-d somewhat
Edited by Ravok on Jul 27th 2021 at 11:12:30 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Yeah Adrien strikes me as the kind of person who just likes messing with people for kicks and given the stuff he just said he probably was thinking that he had better things to do than finish off some random guard.
What’s the Work?
Total Recall (2012) is the remake of the popular Total Recall (1990) made in 2012 starring Colin Farrel. In this movie, Earth has been rendered almost entirely uninhabitable with the exception of The United Federation of Britain in northwestern Europe and The Colony in Australia. The Colony is a low class area and most people there work in the UFB, commuting by using a device called “The Fall” which goes through the Earth’s core. The movie follows Douglas Quaid, a factory worker who one day decides to go to Rekall, a place that claims to be able to inject false memories into people. However things go wrong and Quaid finds himself wrapped up in a much larger conspiracy.
Who is Lori and what does she do?
Lori is seemingly Quaid’s wife, in reality Lori is a plant who’s only been with Quaid for 6 weeks and Quaid is actually a man named Carl Hauser who was turned into Quaid as part of a convoluted scheme by UFB Chancellor Cohaagen to wipe out the Resistance who wish to stop his evil schemes. When Quaid goes to Rekall, their device partially restores his memories of being Hauser and a bunch of police officers sent by Lori kill the Rekall staff but are killed by Quaid. Lori tries to kill Quaid when he goes back home and chases him around The Colony, accidentally killing an innocent man in the process, before Quaid removes his tracking device and leaves it with a random man. Lori then gets a call from Cohaagen who reveals to her that Quaid is Hauser, one of the best intelligence agents in the UFB, and to not kill him. After hanging up on Cohaagen, Lori immediately orders her men to shoot to kill, reasoning that Quaid is too dangerous to be kept alive, and then punches the man with the tracking device in the throat to make him tell her where Quaid went.
Lori catches up to Quaid when he gets to the UFB but she briefly loses him and tries a different strategy by having Harry, an agent posing as Quaid’s friend, try to convince him that he’s still in Rekall and needs to kill his new ally Melina to save himself. When Quaid instead kills Harry, Lori chases him and Melina through a bunch of elevators, gunning down three civilians and destroying two elevators (one of which may have been occupied) in the process. When Quaid goes to meet with the Resistance, Lori and a bunch of soldiers show up and wipe them all out, before Cohaagen orders Quaid’s memories replaced with Hauser’s again, with Lori wishing him “sweet dreams.” Cohaagen and Lori then get ready to enact Cohaagen’s final plan, to send an army of robots through The Fall into The Colony to wipe it all out so the people of UFB can live there to alleviate overcrowding. However Quaid escapes and with Melina’s help, destroys The Fall and kills Cohaagen before falling unconscious. When he wakes up Lori disguises herself as Melina seemingly just to mess with him before she kills him, but Quaid sees through the disguise and fights her, during the fight she stabs a medic to death before Quaid shoots her dead.
Mitigating Factors?
None really, she’s completely Axe-Crazy and doesn’t care about the various people she kills to get to Quaid. At one point she says that Quaid is a traitor and that she’s going to kill him because “traitors get put to death” but it rings hollow since she actively goes against Cohaagen’s orders not to kill Quaid and it’s clear that she’s motivated by a mix of sadism and resentment at how much she hated pretending to be his wife.
Is she Heinous enough?
Certainly, she’s responsible for around 20 onscreen deaths and is helping with Cohaagen’s plan which will kill millions. She does enough to stand out as more than just a lackey for Cohaagen since she actively goes against his orders and kills several people on her own accord.
Conclusion?
A very easy yes.
to Lori
Adrian forgetting to kill one of the guards because he was in a hurry to frame his brother isn't militating at all. I'm vouching to keep him
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 27th 2021 at 2:16:30 PM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
