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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#272751: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:40:31 PM

[tup] Saleon and Lee

[tdown] Heihachi and Rice

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#272753: Jul 25th 2021 at 11:46:15 PM

Aren't the dogs in Occupied Territory a mix of native Japanese Shiba Inus and ones from Burden?

The only one who's appeared in the Burden Hill stories is Emrys. The other three are new characters — the two Japanese Shibas and Mullins the stray. And Emrys isn't a Burden Hill resident so much as someone who occasionally passes through (though he's associated enough with the place that I'd be fine including him in a "dogs of Burden Hill" statement referring to the usual gang (Ace, Rex, etc.))

How's this for a change?

  • "Occupied Territory": The jorōgumo sisters are a trio of Yōkai who relish in the curse of the ancient Lady Tsuchigomo. Taking the chance to slaughter and devour numerous humans for sheer gluttony, they attempt to kill the investigating dogs so as not to be stopped. Allying with the Lady's misplaced grudge, they intend to help overrun the world and wipe out all humanity.

I think I could go either way on the title formatting. I think you could see "Occupied Territory" as referring to the arc and Occupied Territory as referring to the miniseries itself. So the arc "Occupied Territory" is published in the miniseries Beasts of Burden: Occupied Territory.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#272754: Jul 26th 2021 at 12:12:16 AM

Sure to Lee Chaolan.

  • Percy Jackson and the Olympians: The Lightning Thief:
    • Hades is the cruel, tyrannical god of the Underworld, a hellish realm where he keeps thousands of souls in horrific burning agony, with a vast collection of their lost hopes and broken dreams from life. Kidnapping the goddess Persephone, Hades would force her to be his bride in a loveless and abusive marriage. Incorrectly assuming Percy stole Zeus's master bolt, Hades captures Percy's mother to try forcing him to give him the bolt, desiring to use it to break free from the Underworld and wage a war on Olympus that would destroy the world. After getting the Bolt, Hades goes back on his word to spare Percy and his friends, trying to have them consumed by monstrous souls while boasting that he'll be King of the Gods.
    • Medusa was once a beautiful woman cursed by Athena to turn anyone who looks her in the eyes to stone. In the present, Medusa runs Auntie Em's Garden Emporium, where she turns anyone who enters into stone before adding them to her collection around her garden, including children. Introduced chasing a woman, whose husband she had turned to stone, Medusa eventually does the same to the woman, before attempting to turn Annabeth and Percy to stone as well, at one point threatening to use her snakes to force Percy to open his eyes.
  • Incendies (aka Scorched): Nihad Harmanni, in stark contrast to his stoic depiction in the film adaptation, is originally portrayed as a loud and childish psychopath with delusions of being a misunderstood artist. Joining a radical resistance movement in the south of a war-torn Middle Eastern country as their best sniper, Nihad liked to take pictures of his many victims, including children. After defecting to an invading foreign army, Nihad changed his name to Abou Tarek and became the feared Torture Technician of a P.O.W. Camp in Kfar Rayat, where he raped several women for years, even impregnating his own mother when she was sent to him.

RK93 Since: Aug, 2020
#272755: Jul 26th 2021 at 1:05:12 AM

Ok so I'm looking at Dreykov's entry and shouldn't there be a pothole to Natasha's character page?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#272756: Jul 26th 2021 at 1:07:57 AM

I mean, there COULD be, but there doesn't need to be.

The-Scarecrow Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#272757: Jul 26th 2021 at 3:09:10 AM

[tup] to Saleon and Lee [tdown] to Heichachi and Rice

Also, Dracula from TMNT has been approved, right? Because I couldn't find his write up anywhere (I checked the TMNT page itself) even though I saw a unanimous consensus on him being a keep from what I remember

Edited by The-Scarecrow on Jul 26th 2021 at 3:09:26 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
JG98 Since: Feb, 2014
#272759: Jul 26th 2021 at 6:18:18 AM

[tdown] to both Anime!Heihachi and Anime!Lee. I don't think they quite reach the heinousness standard.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#272760: Jul 26th 2021 at 7:42:07 AM

[up] Trying to destroy humanity and trying to massacre an island doesn't reach the heinous standards to you?

[down] Heihachi never tried to massacre an island full of people. He destroys a village but that's nothing to what Lee tried to attempt I bathe movie who seems to have a more onscreen bodycount.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Jul 26th 2021 at 10:50:42 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#272761: Jul 26th 2021 at 7:47:43 AM

Though come to think of it, is Lee bad enough compared to Heihachi?

Wait, which one wanted to destroy humanity?

Edited by ACW on Jul 26th 2021 at 10:57:04 AM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#272762: Jul 26th 2021 at 8:02:51 AM

[up] Heihachi Mishima, though to be fair he didn't get far in accomplishing it, and againm, Lee got more onscreen body count and attempt a large one of an entire island full of people, some of which are his own men as well, something Heihachi didn't really try to accomplish.

  • Tekken: The Motion Picture: Lee Chaolan is the adoptive son of Heihachi Mishima seeking to gain his respects in order to be the new heir of the Mishima Conglomerate and use its resources to Take Over the World even by trying to kill his own adoptive brother to accomplish it. Lee helps his father by carrying out experiments on endangered animals to make them into bio-weapons for the Mishima Conglomerate. He has fighters join his father's tournament and use it as a means to experiment on them, releasing the R-Experiments onto the fighters to kill all of them, with his two lovers being eaten alive. When he was denied by Heihachi of being the true successor for the corporation, he decides to kill all of the scientists and set the island to self-destruct to kill everyone, in order to be the sole inheritor of the company.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#272763: Jul 26th 2021 at 8:47:15 AM

  • Tekken: The Motion Picture: Lee Chaolan is the adoptive son of Heihachi Mishima seeking to gain his respects in order to be the new heir of the Mishima Conglomerate and use its resources to Take Over the World, even trying to kill his own adoptive brother to accomplish it. Lee helps his father by carrying out experiments on endangered animals to make them into bio-weapons for the Mishima Conglomerate. Lee has fighters join his father's tournament and use it as a means to experiment on them, releasing the R-Experiments onto the fighters to kill all of them, with his two lovers being eaten alive. When Lee was denied by Heihachi as the true successor for the corporation, he decides to kill all of the scientists and set the island to self-destruct to kill everyone, in order to be the sole inheritor of the company.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#272766: Jul 26th 2021 at 11:40:22 AM

Read through a long ass Elseworld One-Shot and have a couple of candidates from it

What is the Work?

JLA: Riddle of the Beast is an Elseworld One-Shot that puts the versions heroes of the DC Universe into a Tolkien-like Fantasy land, with everything about the world being reworked as a magical fantasy land, set in middle ages. We follow Robin Drake (the comic version of Tim Drake, who is something of an elf here) as he is sended on a quest by Riddler (The massive bug-like creature) to gather an army and stop the return of The Beast (Etrigan The Demon), who plauged the lands long before. Along the way he meets a various verions of thic comic's version of DC heroes and villains.

My first candidate from the comic is ofcourse it's Big Bad - The Beast.

Who is The Beast?

The comic's version of Etrigan The Demon, the evil creature was summoned by Jason Blood, a bored rich asshole, who decided to enslave him. The Beast quickly overpowered him (making the human subservant to him) and, filled with his desire to cause chaos and death, gathers an army of criminals and attacked the peacful lands, massacring thousands in his name. Eventually reaching the Crags of Gotham, The Beast engages in a fight with the comic's version of Batman and Nightwing (here they are brothers), as his army attacks the innocents. When Batman discovered that Jason's life is tied with The Beasts', he knocked Blood out, which caused The Beast to be knocked out as well, but not before he sadistically burned Nightwing to death and did something, that caused the souls of 10 000 of his victims to fuse with Batman, which caused him great torment and driven him insane over the years.

Captured Beast and Jason were tied up to a boat and sended to fall from a giant waterfall, with The Beast saving himself by fusing with Jason and killing him, which granted him enough strenght to free himself. Discovering in a cave the comic version of Martian Manhunter and seeing his ability to bring the dead back to life and corrupt their very being, The Beast killed Martian and used his corpse (or more specifically the slime, from which Martian's body consisted of) to bring all his dead underlings back to life as a corrupted demonic slaves, who slaughtered people on his will.

Starting the events of the comic by sending Killer Croc and his demons to burn down Robin Drake's village and kill everyone in it, The Beast ordered everyone under his command to hunt down Robin, when he learned that the boy survived. Later on appearing in person by observing his demon minions dragging dead people in the dead martian's slime to ressurect them as his new slaves, silently ordering one of his demonic minions to crawl into the empty pod to drown, The Beast had fun torturing Killer Croc for his failure to kill Robin.

As the heroes managed to gather an army and faced The Beast and his vile forces, with The Beast being shown to bath in blood, and as the armies battle, Robin asked Zatanna to reach Jason in The Beast's mind, only for her to say that Jason is dead and fall down crying after seeing what The Beast planned to do with Robin. Zatanna managed to defeat The Beast and his army by releasing 10 000 tortured souls of The Beast's victims from Batman's body, who then proceed to slaughter the vile forces and The Beast himself.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

None. The Beast is presented as an evil sadistic creature, who enjoys chaos and death and loves to deliver pain and suffering. No agency issues presented, as The Beast is never portrayed as someone, who only follows his nature. No care for anyone else.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Sets it for the comic, being the Big Bad. Launched a bloody conflict that killed several thousands of people. Tortured his minions for failure and even for fun, as he forced one of his minions to drown himself for no real reason. Personally led his army in the slaughtering of entire cities and planning to spread death and destruction across the entire world.

Final Verdict?

What do you think?

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jul 26th 2021 at 9:40:35 PM

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#272770: Jul 26th 2021 at 12:26:29 PM

[tup]Beast (our 2nd version of Etrigan, which is weird because isn't he a hero... a morally grey one but still?)

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#272773: Jul 26th 2021 at 12:36:37 PM

[tup]Etrigan

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#272775: Jul 26th 2021 at 1:12:46 PM

Okay, found a possible example from something other than a Scifi Channel Original Movie:

What is 'It Waits'?

It Waits is a 2005 horror movie in which a park ranger finds herself the plaything of an ancient evil accidentally unearthed.

Who is the Demon and What have they Done?

The Demon was accidentally summoned from Hell hundreds of years ago by Native American shamans. While seeking to summon something they could use to their own advantage, this doesn't go as planned as the Demon rampages across the land for 500 years before finally being sealed away in a cave.

In present day, a group of archeologists (five students, one graduate professor, and one head of archeology) accidently blast into its tomb and set it free, at which point it promptly slaughters them all but one who manages to escape to sacred ground and we later find out left their corpses scattered in pieces all over the nearby river banks. Wandering the woods, it comes across a park ranger named Danny two months later who is suffering from survivors' guilt and mental trauma from a car crash that killed her best friend with her in the driver's seat. Sensing her negative energy, the Demon chooses her as its main victim for that exact reason.

That night, the Demon destroys the Ranger tower' satellite dish, disables the radio, and flips their car and destroys it while using the tower's alarm siren to distract the while it does so, then destroys all the communication at the nearby dam, leaving them completely isolated and cut off.

The next day it comes across the Nashes, a pair of hikers, in the woods, brutally mauling the Mrs. Nash to death before chasing Mr. Nash through the woods and finally impaling him through the gut with its claws and holding him in the air until he painfully bleeds to death.

The Demon proceeds to taunt Danny and her boyfriend, Justin, by dragging their car back up the hill and ripping the engine out. It then breaks into the ranger tower, hangs Mrs. Nash's mutilated corpse upside down inside with a rope trap connected to the door so it will be swung down in front of them to further terrify them (there's no chance that part wasn't deliberate, the camera focuses on the trigger set up at the door so it definitely did it on purpose). While we got a gory discretion shot of the actual kill, her corpse is badly torn up. As they run outside from her corpse, it throws Mr. Nash's corpse off the roof directly into their arms.

Realizing they're isolated with some sort of killer on the loose and have no real way to contact help, Justin decides to hike for help while Danny barricades herself up in the ranger tower. The Demon corners him and brutally kills him, slamming him headfirst into a tree, slashing his chest open, and then bashing him several feet into the air so that he's killed on impact.

It then returns to the ranger tower, breaks into the shed, rips the head off Justin's corpse and puts it inside for Danny to find while leaving the rest on the roof, then waits in the woods, watching her understandably break down from her boyfriend's murder.

Danny meets with the sole surviving member of the group of archeologists from the beginning (who only survived before he found sacred ground). He explains the things personality: it enjoys making its victims suffers before killing. His exact words are "It's like a cat. It likes to play with a damaged mouse but doesn't kill it. It enjoys the preamble of its kills. It actually gets a kick out of watching us suffer before we die", and thus it chose Danny specifically to toy with because she was already emotionally damaged.

As she heads back to the tower, she discovers the monster dug up the corpses of its victims, arranged them around a table with Justin's severed head on a plate.

As she tries to make a run for it in a rainstorm due to it being weak to water, the storm stops and the creature pins her down, looking her over for a moment before driving its claws into her leg, ripping out a piece of her flesh, and slowly eating it in front of her. Rather than kill her then and there, it spreads its wings and flies off so it can continue to torment her.

As Danny and her newly arrived boss Rick head out, it reveals it killed the professor by impaling his corpse on a spike in the middle of the road to force them to stop, then kills Rick by sky dropping the once more exhumed corpse of Justin on him right in front of Danny.

After a final confrontation, Danny manages to run it over with a car, trap it back inside the cave, and blow it up with dynamite, sealing it away once more.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

None. While it never speaks, the Demon is clearly sapient, being capable of setting up elaborate traps and games to torment its victims and does a number of things solely to make Danny's life a living Hell.

The teacher does rapid fire spitball a lot of theories about it, but he admits most of them are just that, theories, because all he can know about it is:

Shamans accidentally summoned it and it took five hundred years to seal it away.

It's a sadistic monster who likes to play with 'damaged mice.'

He explicitly says 'that's what we know for sure', and everything else he's just tried to figure out from legends and watching it.

He makes theories derived from that, but even he isn't sure which ones are true if any. For example he theorizes that maybe it's still got some compassion in there somewhere...purely because it used to be female. Needless to say this theory never gets any proof. On top of that, he's...not exactly SANE, presumably due to his class being slaughtered by it and then spending two months hauled up in a sacred burial ground to try not to die, and keeps going on these weird, long winded spiritual speeches to the point Danny almost writes him off as a crackpot before he even gets to what he actually knows for sure.

Regardless, none of the theories outside of that would disqualify it anyway.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

For a start, 6 kills right out of the gate, though there is a gory discretion shot, five more throughout the movie, so 11 total kills plus having rampaged for 500 years before being sealed away.

The thing is explicitly a sadistic piece of work that likes 'playing with damaged mice' before killing them and gets a kick out of making humans suffer. This is shown when it proceeds to spend the entire movie making Danny's life as much of a living Hell as it's physically capable of doing and did so because she's a 'broken mouse' and that's what it likes to play with.

It repeatedly uses its corpses to toy with her, including digging up the corpse of her boyfriend three times to continue taunting her with it. It's clear it could kill her at any time and is just keeping her alive to play with. This is best shown when it has her pinned down and helpless, but instead chooses to rip a piece out of her leg and slowly eat it in front of her before flying off. It's shown to be strong enough to easily break into the ranger tower whenever it wants (and does so multiple times) and could actually tear the whole place down with its bare hands if it felt like it.

I think the sheer level of screwed up the things this monster does to her purely to entertain itself is more than enough to stand out from the crowd.

Final Verdict?

11 total kills and spends the entire movie making a mentally damaged woman's life a complete and utter Hell solely for its own amusement. Easy [tup] .

Edited by Godzillawolf on Jul 26th 2021 at 4:14:15 AM


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