During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The Emperor of Evil!
Overlord brought up something about Maestro
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Not really feeling it with both images.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Jul 21st 2021 at 10:30:45 AM
Professor Gigachad
Yeah, that is something that we may need to address not familiar with him though.
New images this time of Lord Marmoo
and Lord Darkan
On second thought they aren't really that good.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 21st 2021 at 7:50:04 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Phoebe Spengler
RIP Toriyama
'Yes' to Manson
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I gotta ask Bull, do you deliberately seek out these character pages or just stumble on them? Cuz you bring these up a lot, and it's absolutely welcome and needed, but I can't tell if you've made it a personal project to find them and bring it to the attention of the thread, or if you just have good luck in finding them ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Awesome work man, keep it up we appreciate it!
Edited by Ravok on Jul 21st 2021 at 8:38:05 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Phoebe Spengler
I created a few, but most the time I find them on the index. I am currently part of a cleanup effort for these pages. So I guess you could say I am seeking it out now to clean it up. And when I find one that is okay and has something that can be potholed here, I bring it up.
Speaking of which. Star Wars – Snoke is now a thing and Cars - Tow Mater and Cars - Lightning McQueen are now just redirects to Cars - First Film. I don't know if Snoke is mentioned anywhere, but I know that Mate and Lightning are pothole in the Cars 2 entry.
Edited by Bullman on Jul 21st 2021 at 10:42:53 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Hayato and Charles.
Yes to Hayato and Charles.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Jul 21st 2021 at 9:03:59 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
.....PM me.
Got that Ultraverse candidate now. From Sludge....the horrifying hero, transformed into an ooze-like creature who still fights crime.
Now...from issue 4? Veffir Voon Iyax.
Who is Veffir Voon Iyax?
A terrifying bipedal crocodile man, whose name means "He Of Cold Blood," Veffir Voon Iyax starts the comic by chomping a young boy, with the other boy fleeing...and then a maintenance worker. In fact, a lot of people have been going missing around the sewers. A lot.
One woman, reporter, is investigating herself when she comes upon the best's lair...a gigantic shrine decorated with massive amounts of corpses and bones. Veffir Voon Iyax introduces himself, when Sludge intervenes, only for the crocodile man to seemingly best and kill him, gloting that no entity ever meets him twice.
A being from another dimension who stole into the world, Veffir Voon Iyax was worshiped in Egypt and has been a killer ever since, with 'boundless appetites,' he has slaughtered countless amounts of people, men, women and children and lurks in New York, killing on a constant and frequent basis...
Before he can kill the reporter, Sludge revives and takes him down with the second wind...and then crushes his skull with a final punch.
Mitigating issues?
In very briefly...but what a pattern established. The sheer scope of the kills he's done with no resources and no powers? Insane. He's a ferocious, sadistic beast of a crocodile man and reveled in worship long aog...now he simply enjoys murder, murdering a kid early on and being so feared that the police suspect a serial killer in everything.
But...yeah, nothing good about him. He's fully sapient, verbose, cognizant of all he does with an insane body count that sticks out among the Ultraverse's minor baddies.
Conclusion?
I say keep.
I'm gonna say yes to Veffir. Snuck under the radar.
The Emperor of Evil!
to Veffir
Professor Gigachad
Yes to Veffir.
I'm not going to go into too much detail on the thread, but I'm formally withdrawing my participation in all future Warcraft and other Blizzard related discussion.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Phoebe Spengler
Yeah to Veffir.
Veffir
Is anyone gonna talk about Overlord's concerns with Maestro?
Edited by nwotyzal on Jul 21st 2021 at 9:31:22 AM
Lizzid people!
A cut's a cut if that is accurate.
Professor Gigachad
I will vote cut for now to be safe if an argument for them keeping comes up I will change it (if it convinces me).
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The Emperor of Evil!
I'll abstain for now since this info is stemming from a different website so I'm curious on how accurate this is.
RIP Toriyama
'Yes' to Veffir
I'm not voting on Maestro until someone actually reads these comics and comes to us with the info. And even then, I'm feeling sketch on it due to freaky comics' writing when Maestro has been a consistent CM for so long.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
The Emperor of Evil!
Actually is the comic canon by any chance, Overlord?
Edited by Powermaster201 on Jul 21st 2021 at 12:59:39 PM
RIP Toriyama
Alright, to follow up on my good pal Scraggle's proposal over on MB, we're doing a bit of a crossthread collab from the same franchise. And while he handles a character from source material over there, I've got someone from a tie-in to bring up here...
What's the work?
Treasure Planet is a 2002 Disney Animated film that was damn unfortunately overlooked on its release and lead to it being considered a box office bomb and quickly shuffled aside by Disney in favor of new projects. The film serving as a sci-fi adaptation of the classic Treasure Island, it followed young rebel Jim Hawkins on his journey to find the legendary "Treasure Planet" while facing off with a band of pirates lead by the charismatic John Silver.
Now, the film itself unfortunately lacks a CM—the closest we get to one is Scroop, who despite being a twisted, creepy sadist who horribly kills Mr. Arrow and threatens Jim repeatedly, lacks in overall heinousness—but the film got a...sequel, of sorts, in Treasure Planet: Battle at Procyon.
In the game, Jim has become an Imperial commander in the Royal Navy army, and must combat growing bands of pirates and a mysterious threat known as the "Ironclad" while the Terran Empire tries to negotiate a peace treaty with the Procyon Expanse.
Who is Admiral Evar? What has he done?
A former warchief-turned-ambassador of the Procyon Expanse, Admiral Evar serves as the true Big Bad of the game.
Evar creates the Ironclad armada of warships and uses them to serve as a new threat to the galaxy, having them wipe out countless ships and their crews on the outer frontiers of the Terran Empire. The Ironclad leave few survivors of their attacks, and if any of the Ironclad ships face capture? They have been instructed by Evar to suicide bomb themselves to prevent any survivors or technology from revealing the truth that the Procyons are behind them.
Simultaneously teaming up with a robotic duplicate of John Silver, Evar has Robo!Silver turn bands of pirates into more bloodthirsty, treacherous sorts, leading to more civilian ships being raided and innocents killed, even taking advantage of a small village being weakened by an asteroid strike to try to bombard the village and wipe out any survivors to then raid it of loot.
Now, under the illusion of making peace with the Terran Empire, Evar requests an Imperial transport for his peaceful convoy into Terran space...only to betray the convoy and assist pirates in wiping out the escort ship and leave no survivors, implied to be solely because the captain of the escort once humiliated Evar in a battle when he was a war chief.
And as the Ironclad invasions and pirate raids pick up, stretching the Empire's armies thin, Evar's true plan is revealed: to use the peace treaty as a guise to get close to the Royal Parliament base, and—with the Empire's armies drawn away due to the Ironclad—assault the defenseless Parliament and turn the treaty into a massacre, hoping to leave Parliament and its population decimated and capture and/or assassinate the Queen to completely destabilize the Terran Empire and leave it open to full invasion from the Procyon Expanse.
Luckily, Jim and the real John Silver take down the Robo!Silver and Ironclad armies, and though Evar flies into a murderous rage and refuses surrender to instead attempt to take down Jim and his entire crew in a suicide blitz, Silver personally crashes his ship into Evar's, destroying it and killing Evar while leaving Silver's fate unknown, perhaps going out in a blaze of glory...perhaps escaping once more, ready to take on the galaxy again, but regardless with the Procyon threat diminished for good.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Nada. The Procyon Expanse is just a former tyrannical empire reduced to smaller scale, with Evar compensating by making it a deceitful ploy in an attempt to destabilize the Empire...Evar isn't flourishing in character, having a grand total of like 4 lines lmao, but he's more than well-defined in those lines and other characters talking of him, showing himself to be a manipulative, smug asshat who would rather pull a Taking You with Me than surrender.
Heinousness?
In terms of the franchise, Evar is the worst villain bar none. Silver has only a handful of attempted murders on his hands, Greater-Scope Villain Flint lacks in deeds and is far more of a MB (as you can see on the other thread!), Scroop I already described, and any other villains are barely even notable. Robo!Silver might could count but it's kind of ambiguous on how independent he is or if he's just following programming from Evar.
So, with that in mind? Evar is more than bad enough both in franchise and baseline. Despite the style the story is told, we explicitly see ships destroyed that are noted to have been full of people and now have no survivors, and entire islands + convoys of innocents are endangered multiple times over. And then there's his intended annihilation of the massive Parliament space station and everyone on it to capture or kill the Queen, yah he's nasty.
Final Verdict?
Eeeeeyepyepyep!
Edited by Ravok on Jul 21st 2021 at 10:35:51 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Yes to Evar, enthusiastically.
The Emperor of Evil!
Just in case someone didn't see the most recent EP.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 21st 2021 at 10:58:42 AM
Rawr.