During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
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What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Let's see...there's Friday the 13th: The Series; Reign of the Gargoyles...probably more.
Sorry, just got a chance to check the thread. I'm gonna try and give context for the whole conversation. Sliske is incredibly petty and just likes to fuck with people. He just invited a bunch of gods to a competition and gave each points for having killed gods themselves, but is a massive hypocrite since he started the whole arc by murdering a peaceful god and every other kill he mentions were in different ways justified.
Sliske: Welcome. Welcome. Oh it's so very good to see you all here. Well, actually, I had rather expected there to be fewer of you. But we make of the situation what we can. So let's give a round of special applause for those of you who actually have killed a god, you know, as you were meant to. Armadyl, a round of applause to you. You were the first to really embrace this game and the way you decapitated Bandos...exquisite. Bravo, bravo!
Armadyl: I didn't do it for your game Sliske!
Sliske: Oh no, of course not. You murdered a god for peace, love, justice and blah blah blah... The mighty Vorago, who, on behalf of the Godless, butchered the world-destroying Tuska. Good show, good show!
(If Death killed Gielinor in Nomad's Elegy) Sliske: And Harold, my good friend. So glad you could join us here. Why it seems like only yesterday that I had you trapped in my cage. Oh how time flies. Death: I am not playing your games Sliske. Sliske: Oh? But yet here you are. Funny how artefacts of unfathomable power seem to override principles.
(If Icthlarin killed Gielinor in Nomad's Elegy) Sliske: Icky, dear, dear Icky. So wonderful to see you participating. Why the way you slaughtered that new god, simply artistic. Icthlarin: I didn't do it for your scoreboard. I did it because such an abomination could not be allowed to threaten the Underworld. Sliske: Oh poh-tay-toes, poh-tah-toes, it's still dead, so that's one kill to you. A round of applause!
Sliske: Oh but you, dear, dear Seren. You had the greatest kill of them all didn't you. Matricide. You took the life of your very own mother...our mother. Mah, who dreamed us all into existence. Part of me hates you for that. Odd isn't it? That I should care, that her death should matter in the slightest? And yet the sting is there. That slight knot in my stomach, that dull pain in my chest... ... I mean bravo! You have done what so many others have failed to do. You hurt me.
Seren: You can stop this madness Sliske. Call off this game. Let this end.
In Seren's specific case, both she and the Mahjarrat, Sliske's race, were created to be playthings by the stillborn Elder God Mah. Seren served as her caretaker for eons and loved her dearly, despite essentially being a prisoner. A quest taking place before the one the above conversation takes place in, has Seren's brother Zaros drain Mah of the last of her divine energy to empower the remaining Mahjarrat which leaves her comatose. Seren, out of love, performs a Mercy Kill on Mah. I absolutely see Sliske as being sarcastic and trying to simply emotional hurt Seren. He came from Mah, but there is never any evidence he ever felt any sort of love for her as a creator.
Yes to Mueller and Ernst.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Jul 20th 2021 at 9:11:30 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Trimming the entries has been something I've been wanting to do for a while, so give until I'm off tomorrow and I'll start. I did most of them back in the real early days so they can definitely be refined, and I'm probably gonna resort alphabetically for simplicity's sake.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Jul 20th 2021 at 9:31:30 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.The sarcasm he exhibited when talking about other topics such as god killing. I'm inclined to see Lore as right, the tone just by my reading seems very similar. It does seem like he's just doing it to screw with Seren.
Edited by jjjj2 on Jul 20th 2021 at 12:30:46 PM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the midHe never ever mentions caring about Mah anywhere else. She's not part of his motivations or his reasons for doing what he does. Hell, he's manipulating Mah's sister Jas into wiping out all of existence for the fun of it, which would have resulted in Mah's demise regardless. Given the context of the conversation, I'm confident he doesn't actually care about her death at all and just trying to emotionally hurt Seren, someone who did unambiguously love Mah.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
to Mueller and Kruger.
Keep Slisk.
Got a TMNT villain here I would like to propose.
What's the work?
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012) is a GCI animated tv show made by Nickelodeon (Nick Toons for the final 16 episodes though). It follows the adventures of 4 mutated ninja turtles and their father Master Splinter.
Who is Count Dracula? What has he done?
Count Dracula is the secondary antagonist of the Monsters arc of the show. He's the count of Transylvania who is actually the infamous vampire we all know and love in disguise. In the past, he would use his wolves to lure people to his castle and then murder them by draining their blood. He would keep their bodies in his basement, which is cluttered with at least thousands and at most millions of skeletons. He is recruited by Savanti Romero in his plot to conquer all 10 dimensions in the multiverse.
In "The Curse of Savanti Romero", Dracula is seen unleashing his werewolves in New York and letting them numerous people, who turn into vampires that serve him against their will and then bite others so they can become vampires too.
In "Crypt of Dracula" the turtles head back in time to kill Dracula before Romero can recruit him. However, Dracula has his werewolves attack them. Dracula bites Raph and then the next day attempts to trick the turtles into going into a village that got wiped out by the plague as Dracula has now hypnotized Raph. Dracula heads back to his castle and encounters Romero. Romero convinces Dracula to join him after nearly burning Dracula to death with sunlight.
Dracula later grabs Esmeralda and intends to bite her but the Wolfman/Vulko pierces his foot with a stake. Dracula is nearly killed by Leonardo but vampire Raph saves him and the two battle the heroes into Dracula's castle and into his basement, where we see all of the skeletons of Dracula's victims over the years. Dracula allows Raph to try and suck his brother's blood but Donnie uses a staff of ultraviolent light that burns Dracula's face, forcing him and Ralph to retreat.
In "Th Frankenstein's Experiment" Dracula is seen assisting Romero in manipulating Igor to bring them to his master, Dr. Frankenstein, the scientist who successfully brought the dead back to life. A bored Raph asks his master can he suck the blood of all the humans, to which Dracula assures him that they will soon have a real feast. Romero gets impatient with Dracula, who threatens him not make him not to provoke him. Raph informs about the arrival of his brother's. Dracula allows Renet to use The Mummy to try and kill them, telling him to slowly torture and torment them with psychological torment. The turtles team up with Dr. Frankenstein and attempt to find a cure for Raph's vampirism.
Eventually, Dracula bites Dr. Frankenstein and manipulates him into making his monster attack the turtles. Although they manage to free the doctor's brainwashing, Dracula continues to manipulate the monster and attempts to convince it to leave his father figure for dead. Dracula eventually decides to just brainwash Frankenstein after he ends up with Romero's gang.
In "Monsters Among Us", Raph has been captured by his brothers, who return to New York and find it in mass chaos due to Romero and Dracula, with many werewolves and human vampires roaming the city. Raph manages to hypnotize Mikey and free himself. Dracula then sends April and Casey along with the other minions to eliminate the turtles. Donnie is almost hypnotized thanks to April. But internal problems drive the bad guys apart.
Dracula decides to betray Romero and instead take over the 10 dimensions and bite all the early humans to replace them with evil vampires servants. Romero sends the Mummy to kill Dracula for his betrayal but Dracula murders it using his powers. The two still have to defeat the turtles before fully betraying each other so Dracula attempts to attack the turtles but Mikey manages to impale him a staff that brutally kills him, freeing everyone that has been vamparized.
Heinous Standard?
It's incredibly high for this series. Krang Prime kills billions by destroying the Triceratons world, Rat King wanted genocide on humanity, Overmind has the highest attempted body count bu trying to kill organic life in the galaxy and Kavaxas is seen killing before stealing people's souls. Both Krang Prime and Kavaxas wanted to rule the multiverse too.
Dracula still stands out though. He has the highest onscreen body count after Krang Prime, with up to millions of people killed by him as seen by the skeletons, kills the Mummy brutally, wanted to painfully bite and turn people into vampires and rule the entire multiverse. He stands out and does the most he can.
Redeeming qualities?
He's affable and friendly to his minions but he's forcefully brainwashed them into serving him against their will and not being a Bad Boss isn't always redeeming. Dracula never shows any genuine care for them, he's just being pragmatic. He has no redemeing traits, doesn't respect or care for anyone but himself.
Moral Agency?
Dracula is not made of evil, he's fully aware of what he is doing and has full agency over his actions shown by him betraying Romero.
Moral Event Horizon?
Murdering at least thousands of people, forcefully turning many people into vampires, trying to betray Romero and rule the 10 dimensions for himself... he has enough to qualify.
Offscreen Villainy?
We see the skeletons of the people he's killed in the past, see him kill the Mummy too, see him brainwash and turn dozens of people into vampires and attempt to betray Romero, he has enough onscreen actions as well.
Final Verdict?
I say yes Count Dracula once again easily qualifies. We got another version ready to go up.
Edited by DolphZ on Jul 20th 2021 at 9:43:37 AM
Edit: Yes to Dracula.
To clarify, killing her specifically was not part of his plan. He was trying to manipulate all the Gods into fighting an apocalyptic war that would eventually reawaken the other Elder Gods who would then unmake the universe and start over. Mah, being previously stillborn, wouldn't survive the process and would be left behind. Here's a particular damning quote.
Sliske : Because this world is the lock that holds the rest of the universe together. I've been to countless worlds, but this one is the very keystone of creation. When this world falls, finally the other worlds will wake up and take notice. They'll fall into a free fall against one another. They'll all finally stop being boring. I have lived thousands of years and in that time I have watched everyone just repeat the same cycles again and again. It's as if all sentient life were devoid of creativity. It is so unfathomably tedious. But no one seems to have noticed it but me. They're all so obsessed with their little schemes, unaware that they're locked in a rut. But when war breaks out amongst the gods, without Gielinor, it will span across the whole of creation. Zamorak will unleash his demonic hordes, who will swarm across the worlds tearing them apart. Saradomin will be forced to return to Teragard and bring their twisted science into the conflict, changing the face of the war, quite literally in some cases. Even "peaceful Armadyl" will find himself forced to break his oaths and unleash terrible destruction...again. Doesn't it sound wonderful! No more stagnation. No more tedium. We'll see an end to the gods and the whole universe will be changed by it.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Jul 20th 2021 at 9:45:57 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.

Yes to Mueller and Kruger. Waiting for Lore on Sliske.