TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#271076: Jul 15th 2021 at 3:11:13 PM

How do you strike something out by the way? I want to that to the old part of the above post and don't know how.

Also my autocorrect change Randall Flagg to Rick Flagg for some reason.

Edited by Bullman on Jul 15th 2021 at 5:12:50 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#271078: Jul 15th 2021 at 3:14:11 PM

[up] Thanks.

Edited by Bullman on Jul 15th 2021 at 5:14:27 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#271079: Jul 15th 2021 at 3:14:12 PM

Flagg's a weird case in that he's the villain of three different properties that tonally are absolutely nothing alike. One's a High Fantasy, one's a post-apocalyptic horror, and the last is King's genre-bending epic—and he counts in all three of them, independent or as part of the shared universe. Flagg I will defend having a few entries because it organizationally it's appropriate for the character.

Edited by Scraggle on Jul 15th 2021 at 4:14:20 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#271080: Jul 15th 2021 at 3:17:07 PM

Agreed on Flagg, he spans a lot of stories many of which are only loosely connected.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#271081: Jul 15th 2021 at 3:18:16 PM

You see that make sense and makes me want to read those books as well. Forget I asked.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#271082: Jul 15th 2021 at 3:44:47 PM

Okay, I've delayed long enough on this...the next Clown in a Cornfield candidate. Here's Dunne's EP if anyone needs a refresher; this guy's a pretty brief proposal and he and Dunne can probably have a joint writeup, TBH.

Who is Alec Murray? What has he done?

Stepfather of one of the novel's supporting characters, Janet, Mr. Murray is described as a "terminally basic" man with a terminally basic home and wife. Except Murray is also one of the three ringleaders in the Frendo conspiracy that's been going on in the teenager-hating older generation of Kettle Springs.

Having as much a part in the horrible massacre of teenagers throughout Kettle Springs while dressed up as a school mascot named Frendo the Clown, Murray has a personal body count of dozens—one huge pile of dead, dismembered kids is described as being composed largely of people he's personally killed—and, in his worst touch, Murray knowingly and maliciously allows his own stepdaughter Janet to be brutally murdered by the Frendos.

Any mitigating factors?

Nah. Of the three co-conspirators, it's Dunne with the most characterization and de facto status as Big Bad, Arthur Hill with redeeming qualities, and Murray as the seldom-seen but particularly godawful third villain whose murder of his own stepdaughter is treated in a particularly brutal light. It's a crime that sets him apart juuuust enough from Dunne I think he can keep himself.

Conclusion?

Keeper.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#271087: Jul 15th 2021 at 4:05:58 PM

Sure to Murray. Considering he's one of only 3 leaders, and participates in the killings himself (does Dunne even do that? Or does he just mastermind the plan?), he seems an easy enough keep.

The third leader, I believe, wants revenge (however misplaced) for his daughter.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#271089: Jul 15th 2021 at 4:11:24 PM

Dunne is implied to have taken part in some murders himself, yeah.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#271091: Jul 15th 2021 at 4:21:39 PM

[up][up] Ah. Still, Murray seems bad enough on his own.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#271092: Jul 15th 2021 at 4:50:52 PM

Yes to Murray.

My leg hurts and I hope to get it checked soon, so my activity may be limited for a bit.

SpaceProtagonist (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
#271093: Jul 15th 2021 at 4:54:30 PM

Okay, so I've just finished watching The Evermoor Chronicles on Disney+ (thank god they allow some foreign programming, I thought I'd never see it again). And while Season 1 is by far the superior season in terms of story-telling, I thought I'd watch the second season (it was okay) by chance that it may have a monster or magnificent character. And sure enough, I found a potential candidate in the monster part with Davorin Camute Saint Bartholomew the Wish Giver or Davorin for short.

What's the Work?

The Evermoor Chronicles is a British fantasy series from Disney. It centers around this American family — Fiona Crossley and her kids Tara and Jake— that recently moved to a British town called Evermoor to move into their new home with a new stepfamily — Rob and his twins (Also's Tara's new step-siblings) Bella and Seb. In the pilot miniseries, Tara quickly finds out that Evermoor isn't what it seems and has magic equipment such as a tapestry that often predicts the future and a magic typewriter and, and uncovers this plot of the house owner wanting the golden thread that would grant for the ability to control the future and wanting to erase the Crossleys from existence.

Then, in the first proper season it inspired, Tara's has a whole additional set of problems, as she was the Supreme Everine, and had to solve this mystery surrounding the "Founder Everines".

But anyway... I'm stalling, let's look at the Season 2 candidate.

Who Is He?

So, Davorin is a powerful wish granter who was imprisoned in a magic mirror on an Island by the people of Evermoor for reasons never made clear involving dangerous wish-granting. He vowed to seek revenge on the people of Evermoor by destroying the village.

What Has He Done?

When a demigod named Iggi gets into a relationship with a chief's daughter and shot with a poisonous dart, he'd go to a distant island appropriately named Stink Island hoping to find a cure (with a boy named Ludo secretly following). Iggi would summon Davorin from inside the mirror and the latter would promise to cure Iggi of his pain if he pays him back by serving him. Iggi agrees, while Ludo secretly captures it all on his phone. Davorin introduces himself, heals Iggi, and gives him a set of instructions to get him out of the mirror. The boy scrawls down some kind of map, Ludo accidentally dropping his phone and scrambling to hide. Iggi leaves and Ludo runs out after him, only to find him already leaving with the boat and leaving him stranded on the island.

While reaching for his phone, Ludo's seen by the Mirror Man Davorin. He says that Ludo can't know his plan to Destroy Evermoor. Davorin uses his magic on Ludo -- a child, blowing him up into hundreds of glass splinters and turning him into a ghost. The splinters end up all over the city of Evermoor. Ludo eventually escapes the island and finds his friends, but stumbles right through a tree as he glows bright blue. Otto explains that the splinters are wish-giver magic, and that Ludo is now a ghost. Bella asks Ludo who did this to him, to which he can't remember. Otto says the splinters aren't dangerous unless a wish is made near them.

For the rest of the season, crazy hijinks would ensue involving the wish-granting splinters grating people's wishes and often causing chaos, which Bella and her gang have to handle, to regain the splinters place in Ludo regain bits of his memory and slowly return him to normal. In the background, Iggi would secretly continue working under Davorin's order with blackmail and him threatening to remove his cure, often stalking him. Iggi would find a map and use various methods to find the locations and raise some crystals that would help to release his "master". Davorin would constantly prove to be impatient and never shows any concern for Iggi's trouble, though he would go along in reversing a wish claiming to help Jake... while cursing Jake to unable to tell anyone about the events of the day or him. Then eventually, Bella and the gang would start to get suspicious about Iggi and wonder what he's hiding. He would use his magic to knock Otto out while he's surveying the cave for Iggi, then later he'd do another spell where he alters the video captured on his Ludo's phone of him being shattered into crystals, painting Ludo as the bad guy and indirectly causing the team to lose trust in him and break up for quite some time.

Eventually, things would get cleared up, and thanks to some courage from Bella even when everyone else lost faith, Iggi finally gains the courage to turn on his master, free himself of Davorin's influence and refuse to set him free even though he was so close, pulling a Heel–Face Turn. But it's too late. In the penultimate episode of the season, somebody else accidentally sings the trigger song, completing the final piece needed to release Davorin from his prison for the first time in ages.

The season finale has Davorin finally free to do his reign to get revenge on the Evermoorians who locked him away by doing the same to them, intending to turn everyone in town into ghosts to collect their shattered crystals (and basically souls) and toss them into his former mirror prison for all eternity, including all of Iggi's friends. He uses his magic to shatter his former servant into hundreds of crystals and turn him into a ghost, erasing his memory of recent events. He crystallizes the town DJ for Bella's party and takes his place when hearing everyone in town would be there, gaining the trust of Cameron and Alice.

Once the party starts, Davorin decides to make his presence known, crystallizing the dozens of citizens of town stealing their crystals — including Cameron and Alice. He would have done the same to Otto, were it not some quick thinking, to make him think he was a victim already. He prepares to open the portal for the final step, but Bella shows up in time to discover nearly everyone was a ghost, barely avoiding the same fate. Davorin discovers the two, crystallizes Otto and opens the portal to toss the shattered crystals inside. Rather than just toss the crystals he had inside, he chose to and attack Bella instead to complete his 'set'. But Bella's able to reflect his blast so it hit him instead, with his crystal bits getting sucked inside a vacuum. Davorin is able to get his soul back, but he stops to gloat not realizing his hand was tangled to a vacuum that got sucked in the portal along with him destorying his soul. Luckily, Bella and Otto were able to revive everyone's souls and make sure none of them remembered that incident.

Redeeming Factors

Absolutely none. Anytime he does anything remotely sympathetic and uncruel, there's always something for him in return that he's trying to get. So, he cured Iggi's dart pain in the season premiere... oh wait, it's all just a set-up for making him his little servant to do his bidding. He helps out Jake and undoes a wish accidentally granted? They just using him as part of his plan to uncover the spots needed to release him, and he's cured to be unable to tell anyone about the events of the day. Qualms over hurting children if it's needed to get the job done? Nope, can't say that. Does he have a genuine soft spot or caring side for Iggi? Not even close; the first thing he does upon being free is shattering him into crystals and basically stealing his soul. Nope, no admirable factors here.

Heinous Standard

This man is a Knight of Cerebus and a Vile Villain, Saccharine Show if there ever was one. He's shown to be a shockingly dark villain within a Disney program (then again, it's not like this is completely new.) Whenever Davorin is so much as mentioned or referenced, all the light-hearted moments and good times come to an instant stop. Even though he was Sealed Evil in a Can for a long time, it didn't hold him back very much, and he still proved to be a dangerous and powerful threat. Forcing Iggi to work under his order blackmail and threatening to remove his cure, often stalking him. Cursing Jake to unable to tell anyone about the events of the day or him. Doctoring footage on his Ludo's phone of him being shattered into crystals, painting Ludo as the bad guy and indirectly causing the team to break up for quite some time.

And that's not even getting into his plan to turn everyone in town into ghosts to collect their shattered crystals (and basically souls) and toss them into his former mirror prison for all eternity, (including all of Iggi's friends) as the ghost citizens would eventually fade into nothing by memories with him at the height of his power. In other words, he wants to destory everyone's souls and murder hundreds of innocent people. Not to mention trying to steal the soul of his own close one. So... he's one of the darkest villains allowed to air on a Kid Com.

The Verdict

Okay, there's no way you could possibly turn down this candidate after everything I've stated here. Disney really knows how to appeal to general audiences.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#271094: Jul 15th 2021 at 4:56:31 PM

This is a bit of a surprise but [tup] Davorin, I guess Lab Rats will finally not be alone (Once Upon a Time is a bit weird).

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#271095: Jul 15th 2021 at 4:58:48 PM

I'm to assume the ghosts he captures "fading into nothing" is made explicit at some point—"capture everyone in a supernatural prison" isn't a particularly heinous goal, particularly through the lens of a Disney Kid Com. Pending that, and only that, I'll say yes to Davorin.

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#271096: Jul 15th 2021 at 5:07:03 PM

If the souls thing is made explicit, which to be fair is an oddly specific detail, then sure to Davorin.

Anywho, I've came across a questionable detail on a candidate from Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes, specifically Mole Man. Now, his plans do indeed sound pretty bad, what with the extermination of humanity for petty reasons and such, but this is stated in his character folder:

  • Harmless Villain: He isn't that much of a threat compared to the other members of the quartet's rogues gallery.
Which leads me to ask: just how close does he actually get to his goals? You could write a character with omnicidal ambitions, but if they don't get close to the goal then they can't really count.

[down] I was asking about a totally different character. Don't think Mole Man stole any souls lol.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Jul 15th 2021 at 5:17:06 AM

SpaceProtagonist (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
#271097: Jul 15th 2021 at 5:12:16 PM

Oh don't worry, he gets lethally close. The only reason he failed was due to his overarrogance. You did read the "What Has He Done?" section, right?

He is a meance threat to humanity capable of grave danger not to be underestimated.

Edited by SpaceProtagonist on Jul 15th 2021 at 8:13:56 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#271098: Jul 15th 2021 at 5:18:07 PM

  • Ape City: Scab is a member of the Vindicators a group of 6 sent forward in time to eliminate as many apes as they can. Scab is the most brutal and evil member of the Vindicators and the one who takes the most active pleasure in the atrocities that the group commits. The Vindicators start off their spree by killing over 50 apes. When a battle raged on for a while and Scab decided on his own to end the fight by launching a napalm at the other faction's base to wipe them out in one go.
  • 2011 series: Brother Kale is the leader of a cult in the city of Mak he was an extreme human supremacist and made a plot to start a war. He would sell weapons to a human named Chaika who would go on to assassinate the Lawgiver which would start a war between the humans and the apes. Not only did he not care that his actions lead to the assassination that started the war, but he made it worse by manipulating an ape named Nerise into staging a coup against the ape leadership and thus cause an ape civil war. After he got some competition in the weapons selling business by The Great Khan, he would create a new plan. That would be him sacrificing himself to the apes so that his top follower Martha carrying out his plan from beyond the grave would denote a nuclear bomb in Mak killing everyone inside including both humans and apes

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#271099: Jul 15th 2021 at 5:33:06 PM

Expand on your answer to Scraggle's question. This EP is written fairly sensationally and while you keep saying they "fade away" I want to know explicitly that means a Cessation of Existence for the ghosts. Otherwise all he's doing is trapping them eternally. Also asking people if they bothered to read your post for posing what was a damn fine question isn't going to win you any favour points, pal.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#271100: Jul 15th 2021 at 5:48:53 PM

[tup] to Sybil Thorn, Alec Murray and Davorin.


Total posts: 326,048
Top