Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

I lean towards yes on the image.

Serious though do we count theatre for actors the same way we do movies or tv shows?

I’d be cool with doing that, but just for the actors that originated the roles - opening it to everyone is a bit of a Pandora’s Box to me

I am not normally one to propose cuts, but I'm like the only person around here who plays these games, so it's either I bring it up or nobody will. Specifically, I want to suggest a cut for this guy:

• Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories: Overlord Zenon is one of the most powerful and feared Overlords in the multiverse. He curses the human world to eventually turn all its citizens into demons and erase their memories. A coward at heart, he flees from battles he cannot win and arranges a tournament where all challengers to his title will fight each other for an audience, just a pretense for him to get his enemies to kill each other. When confronted with Demon Lord Etna, who he was previously fearful of, he laughs at the sight of a "little girl" and thinks he overestimated her. When she kills him, Zenon uses the curse on the human world to resurrect and goes into hiding while he fully recovers. He also massacred the Snow Clan ninja fifteen years ago to ensure they could not resist his control over the humans. His one soft spot is for his daughter Rozalin—except that it's just a twisted revenge on the True Zenon that Rozalin is a reincarnation of; this imposter Zenon stole True Zenon's name and raised his reincarnated form as a daughter for the ironic amusement of his enemy looking up to him and praising him as a father, when actually Zenon cares nothing for Rozalin and has raised her without letting her even see him. Zenon is the very worst that the demons of the Netherworld can produce, a genocidal and cowardly usurper who would condemn an entire human world to become mindless monsters just to increase his own powers.

I'm gonna level with y'all here: he's not even close to being bad enough. The heinous standard for this franchise is goddamn insane and he doesn't even come close to reaching it.

• Baal, the recurring superboss, is said to have destroyed countless worlds and if I recall correctly he tries to do it onscreen at least once.
• 3 features an optional bad ending where the main character goes crazy and destroys the universe.
• Nemo, the Big Bad of 4, ends up getting the power of the Capital G God on his side and tries to wipe out several worlds in his mad scheme for revenge.
• God tries forcing Nemo to go through with it after the latter begins having second thoughts.
• Void Dark, the Big Bad of 5, goes on a brutal, murderous campaign against the rest of the universe in an effort to bring his sister back from the dead.
• Majorita, Void Dark's second in command, is a crazy, sadistic psycho bitch who helps him with his plans and adds her own cruel touchings to things, at one point forcing a young girl to fight the reanimated corpses of her loving dead parents.
• Cerberus/Misual, the Big Bad of 6, concocts a scheme to destroy the universe and tries to trick the main character to kill his little sister, who Misual personally transformed into a world destroying monstrosity, all while she's conscious inside of it and helpless to stop herself. He does this TWICE.
• And finally, Naive, a fuck-off minor villain from 6 who willingly tries to help Misual with his plans to wipe everything out, and ends up holding a bunch of children hostage.

Now, all of those characters are pretty blatantly disqualified for one reason or another, but the point stands that Zenon, comparatively, only threatens one world. Like, I'm not even convinced he stands out in his own game - Etna blows up the human world during a temper tantrum in one ending, Laharl does the same in another, and the True Zenon, in the worst ending, is implied to move on to do the same after eating two children alive. The only point in Zenon's favour is the shit with his daughter, but much of his mistreatment of her boils down to "lol I'm not gonna talk to her, I'm so fuckin evil". He only really tries to kill her near the end of the game, with no real special touches. You can't really argue resources, either - Zenon is an Overlord, making him one of the strongest people in the setting, and he has a massive army at his side that he simply never uses in a meaningfully heinous way.

I'm admittedly a bit of a noob when it comes to cutting things, and definitely so on a forum I uncommonly use, but I figured this was worth a shot. If nothing else, his entry probably doesn't need to be this long, so I can trim it if he stays up.

Edited by DocSharp on Jul 14th 2021 at 5:50:22 AM

Yeah, Cut him, considering those points I can't really see him standing out.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 14th 2021 at 5:42:46 AM

Cut the only one I’ve bothered to touch from the larger verse is Totopepe and he pulls some next level shit for a guy with jack for resources.

Also yes to Scraggle’s expansion and a really happy yes to Musical!Bateman. Also yes to the image, I think it’s obvious enough what just happened there.

Edited by 43110 on Jul 14th 2021 at 8:54:31 AM

Chop chop goes Zenon.

Cut Zenon

Wait, so all of those nasty villains you've mentioned don't count either?

Short version: half of them have loved ones. Baal, God, Majorita, and Naive are the exceptions - Baal is a borderline GDV and he's been played for laughs a couple times, while Majorita and Naive chill out a lot after the plot ends and seemingly want to reconcile with the people they wronged. God's only onscreen appearance is an avatar that looks like a cutesy mushroom with a high pitched voice lol.

Edited by DocSharp on Jul 14th 2021 at 6:06:14 AM

Can't speak for the Disgaea 6 characters, but for the others, Baal is a GDV (except for Disgaea 3, but all he does there is steal some stuff) and along with that, has moral agency issues due to literally being an aggregate of evil souls. Nemo has redeeming qualities ans redeems himself post game, same case for Void Dark, and God is a case of Blue-and-Orange Morality.

But yeah, cut Fake Zenon.

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jul 14th 2021 at 9:03:22 AM

Cut Zenon

Zenon

Cut Zenon. No keepers from Disgaea, then.

I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of one in the future, though.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Jul 14th 2021 at 9:18:21 AM

So it's one of those kinds of franchises where every villain heinous enough has redeeming qualities but the villains without redeeming qualities fail the heinous standard to the ones with.

Cut Zenon

Sure we can cut Zenon

the Khans & Bateman

Verone

Cut Zenon

Cut Zenon (Holy shit that's a heinous standard and a half right there).

to Musical Bateman and his image.

Yes to Bateman.

Cut Zenon.

Patrick Bateman.

to Sayan, Susdal and Karikan Khan, the Chucky image, the Chuck Wilson rewrite, the Morakeb, Patrick Bateman, and his image.

to the Dark Lord images, the Aggregor image, and Carter Verone. Cut Overlord Zenon.

Yes to Musical!Bateman

What's the work?

Straight Edge Kegger (and before you ask, no, it's not a comedy except for a few instances of comic relief) is totally not the hardcore punk version of You're Next, whatever are you talking about? Just because it features killers in a home invasion scenario wearing animal masks, using cell phone jammers, and wielding crossbows and machetes does NOT mean it was even remotely influenced by another movie. Okay, seriously though, it's about a straight-edge punk named Brad who breaks off from his friends because he becomes disillusioned with the gang and their hypocrisy. One night, he's at a house party, which the gang decides to crash... violently.

Who is James? What has he done?

James is the militantly straight-edge leader of his gang. Originally, he started the group with good intentions, trying to keep Nazis and other generally awful people out of local shows, but over time, he became just as much of a bully as them. His very first scene has him threatening the vocalist of a band playing not to perform their song "Boozehound". The vocalist decides to perform it anyway, and James gets up on the stage and decks him in the face. Brad steps out for a breath of fresh air, meeting another punk who's decidedly not straight-edge, chatting with him for a bit until James and his gang burst through the door, throwing a teenage boy out and intimidating him into handing over his Budweiser shirt.

As said before, after an altercation, Brad gets tired of the whole scene, starting to see through James, eventually caving and giving up the straight-edge lifestyle, meeting up with his new friend from the gig at a house party. James, of course, takes notice that Brad's been missing and he and his friends (somehow) track him down to the party, set up booby traps around the house and start picking off the revelers from both the outside and inside, killing almost all of them but a few (like the drunk girl who fell asleep in the bathtub, or Sean, who is only wounded with James' razor). Once almost everyone's dead, one of James' friends who was questioning the whole thing from the start bails and calls the cops from a payphone.

The cops arrive at the house, and James manages to initially smooth-talk his way out of the situation and discourage the cops from searching the house. It very nearly works until Brad and his new girlfriend Maybe come running out and tell them what's REALLY going on, and one of James' followers kills the lady cop while James slits the male cop's throat. After dispatching James' remaining friends, Brad, Maybe, and Sean go back to the house and try to figure out how to get out of the house undetected, with Maybe escaping through the back door just as James shows up and makes one last effort to kill Brad personally... only for Sean to pop him in the back of the head with a cop gun.

Mitigating qualities?

He IS mentioned to be affiliated with S.H.A.R.P. (Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice) and Antifa, and again, did start out with pure intentions, and he's Latino, so it would make sense that he would be against racism, though I don't think much is ever made of that. But in the end, he contradicts his entire supposed ideology by being every bit of a thug as the people he claims to be fighting against, doesn't care much about his supposed friends, and his last words to Brad are "you're not better than me." In other words, really, everything for him is about being in charge and having authority. Plus, you know, he and his friends butchered almost an entire house full of people just for drinking and doing drugs. There is one point where he tried to apologize to Brad for snapping at him when he told him he was tired of the straight-edge life, but it falls short considering that he literally tried to kill him and everyone around him just for falling off the wagon.

Heinous standard?

While everyone (barring the one who left) in the gang participated in the mass slaughter, he's clearly the leader and stands out above the rest of them with his common sense and charisma. Brad and his new friends kill a few of them, but it's entirely in self-defense.

Verdict?

Up to you, though after some consideration, I'm not even entirely sure he counts due to his possible standards.

Edited by Stellarvore on Jul 14th 2021 at 11:38:06 AM

Bateman and James

Zenon

Yes to the Morakeb expansion (please add to the Maciste page).

Yes to Bateman.

Bullman, I say counting theater the same as movies/TV is fine. (Arbitrary sandbox, my arbitrary rules )

So long Zenon.

Yes to James.

Musical!Patrick and James. Cut Zenon.