During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yeah, not sure about the image....
One more Maciste, however: Maciste Against the Mongols. The heirs of Genghis Khan have inherited the empire of their father and are bent on conquest. So let's talk Sayan, Susdal and Karikan Khan
Who are the sons?
As Scraggle nicknamed them, 'Huey, Dewey and Louie Khan' are the sons of Genghis. Now, in this, Genghis eventually sought to make peace with the West, but after his death, his sons have no such compunction. With Sayan as their first among equals, the trio lead a full assault together upon the city of Tuleda and massacre it. The place is obliterated, thousands slaughtered and taken as slaves. Karikan's wife manages to keep some of the women from being hurt by taking them as her own slaves, with the city's princess Bianca being captive, and the brothers desiring her as a concubine.
Each of the brothers gets up to his own little unique crimes...as they each lead a variety of brutal conquests, Maciste is enslaved with more torture sent out to the unwilling victims through it. They intend on sweeping through Europe, to massacre just about everything they can find through it....also, they attempt to take Bianca, with Ljuba protecting her, resulting in Karikan knifing her fatally but while she dies, she manages to free Maciste.
With the help of a traitor, they intend to attack the next city and wipe it out as well...basically turning Europe into a pure charnel house. This proves unwise, of course...and in the ensuing battle, one by one, the Khan boys go down, cut down in battle, drowned in a marsh and ending as Sayan faces Maciste himself...before he is fatally stabbed as well.
Mitigating issues?
Well, no. The three function as one unit and as far as Maciste baddies go, they're pretty damn nasty. The wiping out of cities is shown entirely, with them planning to continue through all Europe. Rape, Pillage and Burn, torture, Karikan murdering his wife...and to top it off, it's made clear this is not what their father even wanted.
Conclusion?
Solid yes to the trio.
Yes to the sons of Genghis Khan who were not named after the actual sons of Genghis Khan. Further confusing is that Maciste was in another movie with Genghis Khan himself, but that movie used an actual Khan, Kublai, as the villain (who has just a few too many redeeming qualities to clinch by the end).
Edited by Scraggle on Jul 14th 2021 at 1:12:39 PM
Genghis jrs
@Scraggle. Hm, well out of the Terrible Trio he seemed like the one calling the shots. Guess you don't feel the Way Bads he grew in a lab to be hideously deformed and feral is enough either? That for sure was fully his own doing.
Edited by Snowy66 on Jul 14th 2021 at 12:08:39 PM
@Snowy66: What Psychobos does to the Way Bads are...well, way bad, but his rapsheet overall doesn't push it all the way for me. He's an extremely reprehensible mad scientist, but being the worst in his own niche doesn't necessarily mean he'll stand out all the way when all of Ben 10's arch-villains are often attempting really, really high body counts.
@ACW: I've got at least one more Maciste from Terror of Rome against the Son of Hercules. And then...uh, shit, we're almost done the flicks at that point. There's like a few more available in English we still have to watch, and a few others which I'd have to learn Italian to watch.
Khan brothers
I found a possible image of Aggregor
◊ altough could be hard to understand for somebody who doesn't know the show.
Edited by ASghhrv6ub on Jul 14th 2021 at 2:19:22 PM
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me BlaineDon't like the Aggregor pic, but throwing in my hat for that Chucky image.
@Snowy66: Essentially. It's a "sum of his parts" kinda thing, where the whole in this case isn't exactly enough even when some of his deeds are glaringly nastier than others. I'll let the thread take the rest of the vote but that's conclusively where I stand.

@Snowy66: Mind-controlling a planet comes off as much tamer to me than, say, blowing it up. It's the reason I think Ghostfreak only just pulling through when his planet-sized schemes are usually of the "transform people into monsters" variety as well—but even then I still have to concede he's clearly worse than Psychobos when you compare the frequency and the scale of his deeds.
The other thing for me—when Ghostfreak ends up allied with another baddie (Lord Transyl) he clearly comes off as the worse of the two. Psychobos is the butt of an Eviler than Thou moment from Maltruant and the rest of his schemes come off as him being a cog but not the cause. This really helps to define who's responsible for what when we're measuring rapsheets.
Edited by Scraggle on Jul 14th 2021 at 12:58:20 PM