During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Strack, Mr Meeks, Smiler
Edited by Snowy66 on Jul 14th 2021 at 3:58:31 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Leaning yes on Psychobos, VERY slightly. But could he have stopped Malware's plans?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
He absolutely would not have stopped Malware. When the heroes ask him about Malware’s whereabouts, he taunts them about what Malware is about to do, followed by Galvan B blowing up.
Edited by Snowy66 on Jul 14th 2021 at 4:24:44 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
He WOULD not have, but COULD he have if he HAD wanted to? There's a difference between agreeing with someone's plans and actually being able to do something.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Well most cases he probably couldn’t physically overpower Malware, since Psychobos is usually a Non-Action Guy. But there was one instance where he restrained/abused both Malware and Khyber for acting out of line.
Malware specifically turned to Psychobos due to needing him. None of his final plan would have been possible without Psychobos.
Edited by Snowy66 on Jul 14th 2021 at 4:39:15 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Alright, I'll give him a yes. Seems JUST heinous enough for his tier.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cool, thanks
As per ACW’s request, I added the Volumes the entries appeared in for ''Roll Over And Die". I hope you will approve of these proposed entries to be added to the Anime and Manga page for Complete Monster.
- ''Roll Over And Die"
- The Unnamed Slave Merchant, the Starter Villain of Volume 01, was a greedy, sadistic, coward that would indoctrinate babies into believing that their only purpose was to be sold to others and make him money. He showed no regard to who he sold his slaves. If he couldn't make a profit off of his 'merchandise', he would have slaves eaten by ghouls and would turn their deaths into a spectacle for his sadistic pleasure. He would trick the slaves into feeling false hope by offering them a cursed sword to defend themselves against the ghouls that would in reality melt them into a puddle if they touched it. When heroine Flum begged for mercy, he blamed her for 'tricking' him into losing a lot of money and told her the only way she could make up for the sin of being useless was to die or she could take her chances with the cursed sword. When Flum turned the tables by being able to wield the cursed sword and killed his ghouls, the Slave Merchant begged Flum for his life despite condemning her and others to death for his entertainment mere moments ago.
- Satils Francois, the Arc Villain of Volume 03, was a noblewoman who appeared to run legitimate businesses, but it was all a front to hide her dealings with the slave trade and the Church of Origin. She had Susy Chalmers tortured and murdered then proceeded to fund the necromancy research of her widower, Dafydd. She had dealings with the Slave Merchant who provided her with beautiful girls, such as Milkit, to take delight in breaking them. When her subordinates built her a private torture room, Satils murdered them to hide the secret. Resurrecting after her death at Flum's hands, Satils gained control of the Necromancy Focal Core that allowed her to turn all the dead people revived with Origin cores in Shoel Village into monsters, including Dafydd's family. Without hesitation, Satils forced the dead to murder their still living relatives, eventually fusing them into a monster. She proceeded to absorbed Dafydd because he outlived his usefulness while mocking him about how she was responsible for his misery. Capturing Flum, Satils tortured Flum using the Voice of the Legion of all the dead people to the point Flum briefly forget everything, including her own name, before Satils proceeded to go on a rampage to kill Flum's friends and any of the remaining survivors.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Please add here.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I am grateful for the approval ACW. I thank you. I added the entries so what happens now?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll add potholes and stuff, I'll add it to the YMMV page, then Sunday I'll post it here with the rest of the entries, then Monday night/Tuesday morning I'll request they get added to the Anime CM page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Showtime!
ACW what do you mean by potholes in this kind of situation?
Best Smile
Arsonist, Fallen Third, Smiley, Queen Samara, Thrull, Louis, Thorthon, Psychobos.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
The Room, Arnold.
Meeks and Psychobos.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Roll Over And Die:
- "The Girl Who Wanted to be Boring" & "Flum's Blessing in Disguise" (Episode 1, Chapters 1-2): The unnamed slave merchant was a greedy, sadistic coward who would indoctrinate babies into believing that their only purpose was to be sold to others and make him money. The merchant showed no regard to who he sold his slaves, and if he couldn't make a profit off of his "merchandise", he would have slaves eaten by ghouls and would turn their deaths into a spectacle for his sadistic pleasure. The merchant would trick the slaves into feeling false hope by offering them a cursed sword to defend themselves against the ghouls that would in reality melt them into a puddle if they touched it. When heroine Flum begged for mercy, the merchant blamed her for "tricking" him into losing a lot of money and told her the only way she could make up for the sin of being useless was to die or she could take her chances with the cursed sword. When Flum turned the tables by being able to wield the cursed sword and killed his ghouls, the Slave Merchant begged Flum for his life. despite condemning her and others to death for his entertainment mere moments ago.
- "The Lies and Losses of the Necromantic Memories" (Episode 4): Satils Francois was a noblewoman who appeared to run legitimate businesses, but it was all a front to hide her dealings with the slave trade and the Church of Origin. She had Susy Chalmers tortured and murdered, then proceeded to fund the necromancy research of her widower, Dafydd. She had dealings with the slave merchant, who provided her with beautiful girls, such as Milkit, to take delight in breaking them. When her subordinates built her a private torture room, Satils murdered them to hide the secret. Resurrected after her death at Flum's hands, Satils gained control of the Necromancy Focal Core that allowed her to turn all the dead people revived with Origin cores in Shoel Village into monsters, including Dafydd's family. Without hesitation, Satils forced the dead to murder their still living relatives, eventually fusing them into a monster. She proceeded to absorbed Dafydd because he outlived his usefulness while mocking him about how she was responsible for his misery. Capturing Flum, Satils tortured Flum using the Voice of the Legion of all the dead people to the point Flum briefly forget everything, including her own name, before Satils proceeded to go on a rampage to kill Flum's friends and any of the remaining survivors.
It looks good to me.
If anybody has a moment, I had brought up a point about a potential candidate about 9 pages back, and how moral agency issues may be a limiting factor to the villain.
Edited by SpaceProtagonist on Jul 14th 2021 at 9:57:52 AM
Can you link the post?
The Draftsman of Doom
Yea to Hangman and Psychobos. Abstain on Brainiac.
Feels good, don't it?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Unless there is any evidence that suggests otherwise, keep Brainiac.
Meeks & Psychobos
Arnold
Edited by nwotyzal on Jul 14th 2021 at 7:25:30 AM
Mmm. When most of Psychobos' worst deeds are by proxy of other baddies (he's giddy when Malware tries to commit genocide! And he's especially bad when he allies with the omnicidal Maltruant!) I can't give Psychobos the benefit of the doubt of standing out. Eon, at least, attempted to wipe out all reality solo before allying with other baddies to start screwing around with the timeline. The worst you can say about Psychobos is that he's a nastier-than-average scientist. Doooes that stand out?
The mad science is nasty, mostly Phil's episode, but look—nasty mutation and torture is hella common in Ben 10. Hell, I'd personally vouch to strike Zombozo from the list because I just personally can't give the same gravitas to "turn a town of people into reversible Monster Clown baddies" when the worst in this show tend to regularly try and commit genocide. Ben 10 had a surprisingly fucked heinous standard.
"No" to Psychobos. He's too much of a runner-up compared to the guys you've brought before this and one of our big rules is "second place doesn't earn you the trophy" if you don't go out of the way to distinguish yourself, and in this case, some mass brainwashing and experimentation isn't enough to fully compliment the stuff he's piggybacking off of Malware/Khyber/Maltruant.
Edited by Scraggle on Jul 14th 2021 at 10:08:35 AM
Edited by DrScavenge27 on Jul 14th 2021 at 3:51:17 AM