During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
This is a bit of a weird one but I think I will give it a try.
What is the Work
Transformers/Back to the Future is a crossover comic that is Exactly What It Says on the Tin.
Who is Megatron and What Has He Done?
Megatron as usual is the tyrannical leader of the Decepticons. Now due to it being a Back to the Future crossover it involves a lot of time travel stuff so there is actually two Megatron's the two is the one in the current timeline and the one in the Crapsack World Alternate Timeline I for the purpose of this proposal I will only be talking about Alt!Megatron since the other one doesn't really do much.
Due to the manipulations of a time-travelling Rumble and his enslaved human collaborator Biff Tannen spent ten years stockpiling energon cubes, and in the year 1984 Rumble broke into the Ark and reactivated Megatron and all of the other Decepticons prematurely. Megatron would kill off Optimus Prime and without him to stand in his way Megatron quickly conquered the world killing most of the Autobots and force the rest underground. He would also murder Rumble for seemingly no reason and used Biff Tannen to enslave all of Hill Valley forcing the population to mine and murdering them whenever they failed to meet Megatron's quotas, as well as per usual killing anyone who opposed him.
By the time of 2015 Megatron's sheer level of cruelty eventually got so bad that it caused Gigawatt to turn on him. Megatron attacked him intending to kill him but Gigawatt was able to escape just in time but not before Megatron was able to damage his Flux Capacitor preventing him from travelling.
After this Megatron isn't really seen again and is eventually erased when the timeline is restored.
Does he have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Nope, none to speak of in terms of the character himself but there are a few things I need to talk about. First of all, since this is a crossover with Back to the Future you may wonder if it's played seriously well it is since it is more based on the transformers' style of tone.
Now Offscreen Villainy is something that needs to be mentioned since Megatron as a villain is very distant to the point where the heroes never ever encounter him. However, we see many of his actions and personality in actions wth him speaking and stuff we see him killing a majority of the Autobots before they wake up and him attempting to execute humans for failing to meet their quotas something which he has done many times. And while we don't see everything he does we see the effects of it with Hill Valley being a dystopia where nearly everyone is enslaved in the mines by Biff who is under orders from Megatron or at least the Decepticons which Megatron leads.
Does he meet the Heinousness Standard?
No problem he has many murders enslavement of an entire town and likely many more and executing any human who fails to meet their production quotas as well as anyone who is no longer useful to him. Everyone else like Biff is just working for him. He isn't exactly the most heinous baddie or version of Megatron out there but I think he does do enough to stand out, this crossover as far as I can tell also seems separate from the rest of the franchise.
Final Verdict?
Leaning yes.
Barthus. And now for the second half of my Yakuza 4 candidates.
What's the Work?:
I already described Yakuza 4 in the previous EP, so I just cut to the chase and talk about my next Yakuza candidate, Isao Katsuragi.
Who is Isao Katsuragi? What does he do?:
Isao Katsuragi started off as a regular officer of the Ueno Seiwa, which was led by Yoshiharu Ueno, and was oath brothers with a undercover Yakuza who pretended to be a cop, Junji Sugiuchi. Wanting to advance his rank in the clan, Katsuragi conspires with Sugiuchi and the Tojo Clan's Kazuo Shibata to do so. This involves having Shibata, who plans to advance his own rank by pretending to offer peace with the Ueno Seiwa after the plan, manipulates the Sasai Family leader, Hideki Sasai, into planning an assault on the Ueno Seiwa and their chairman by providing him their whereabouts, resulting in Sasai sending one of his junior members, Taiga Saejima, to commit the assault, which Saejima agrees to do so out if loyalty to his boss, alongside his oath brother, Goro Majima. Knowing that a second hit man would risk his plan, Katsuragi has Shibata take care of Majima on the day of the hit, which he does so by having his men keep Majima restrained before having him tortured, resulting in the loss of his left eye. Meanwhile, Saejima arrives at the location of the clan and is seemingly able to murder 18 Ueno Seiwa men, Katsuragi, and Yoshiharu Ueno, who Katsuragi protects by shielding him. However, after Saejima leaves, one of the men gets up and discovers he's still alive and that the bullet was non lethal. Katsuragi, who was secretly wearing body armor, reveals said bullet to be a rubber bullet, non lethal rounds that only knock people out and hurt like hell, and then proceeds to kill him and the other 17 men with headshots, leaving the unconscious chairman alive so Katsuragi can become captain. He then has Sugiuchi shoot him in the shoulder to complete. This event results in Saejima being arrested for a crime he didn't commit as Katsuragi's scapegoat and would later be scheduled for execution, Majima being sent to the hole where he was tortured and later being forced to work with Sagawa during the events of Yakuza 0, and Sugai was forced to disband his family and go into hiding, eventually going catatonic in the process. Unfortunately for Katsuragi, Munakata was easily able to find out the truth from Sugiuchi's false report and uses this to blackmail Katsuragi into becoming his pawn.
Years later, Katsuragi, wanting to keep the truth of the hit a secret, would manipulate Saejima's sister, Yasuko, into killing anyone who knew of the truth about the hit, which includes Kanemura from Kanemura Enterprises and Shibata's men due to Shibata attempting to blackmail him, by stating he would free Saejima from prison if she kill for him, or give him 100 million yen, knowing that Yasuko would choose murder as she could not afford that price. Desiring the rights to the Majima Family's recently built Kamurocho Hills, Katsuragi promotes Masaru Ihara to the role of lieutenant so he can cause a disturbance and have Hiroaki Arai murder him so Katsuragi can use this to demand that Tojo Clan Chairman Daigo Dojima surrender the rights of Kamurocho Hills to him. Yasuko would later find out that she was only being used to eliminate those who knew the truth, and instead manages to get 100 million yen loan from Akiyama so she won't have to kill anymore. However, after managing to get the money, she is kidnapped by Shibata's men and is brought before Shibata and Arai. Just as Shibata was about to have his way with her, he is suddenly executed by Arai, having been ordered by Katsuragi to kill Shibata due outliving his usefulness and for attempting to blackmail him, but before Arai can bring Yasuko to Katsuragi, Tanimura bursts in and manages to save Yasuko, though Arai escapes.
Learning about Katsuragi's involvement in the plan from Yasuko, Tanimura manages to convince Katsuragi to arrange a meeting in front of the Millennium Tower by telling him that he knows where Yasuko is and he has the 100 million yen, that Yasuko had gave him when she realizes that Katsuragi would never prove her brother's innocence, to prove it. At the meeting, Katsuragi confesses that he conspired with Shibata to arrange the Ueno Seiwa massacre, and have Saejima take the fall for it, to ascend the ranks, had Shibata and his men killed for their knowledge of the truth, and that Tanimura's father was killed for trying to uncover the truth of the conspiracy. Tanimura demands to know who killed his father and who really killed the 18 men, but Katsuragi tells him that he has to tell him where Yasuko is first. Tanimura decides to surrender the 100 million yen to him in exchange for leaving Yasuko alone and that she was in Okinawa to meet up with her brother. Katsuragi merely laughs at this and reveals that he actually had an ambush planned for Tanimura, planning to kill him before dealing with Yasuko. Katsuragi refuses to admit who killed Tanimura's father, but DOES admit that HE was the one who killed the 18 men, before leaving Tanimura to be killed by his men, though not before revealing he had ordered some of his men to kill Tanimura's friends, Zhao and his daughter Mei Hua, just to spite him, uncaring if his men massacre Chinatown as well in the process. Fortunately, with the help of Sugiuchi, Tanimura was able to defeat the Ueno Seiwa men and save his friends.
Katsuragi would later learn from Arai's dragon, Kido, about Akiyama's 100 billion yen and has Kido steal it from him by accusing Akiyama of coercing his clients. Upon discovering that Saejima escaped prison and is currently hold up in Purgatory, Katsuragi has his men assault the place and capture Saejima, brutally injuring The Florist and many of his men that live in Purgatory in the process. Katsuragi proceeds to taunt Saejima, revealing that he was the one who really murdered the 18 men, before revealing that he plans to use him, Yasuko, Akiyama's money, and the file that contains info about Munakata's illegal prisons and schemes to betray and blackmail Munakata, be free of his control, and take his power to rule the Tokyo Underworld. Yasuko is captured as well not long after when she arrives to meet up with her brother Purgatory.
Knowing that Katsuragi needs the file for his plans, Kazuma Kiryu offers to make a trade for Yasuko and Saejima to set free, as well as hand over Akiyama's money, in exchange, and Katsuragi agrees to do so… On the occasion that Kiryu fights EVERY SINGLE member of the Ueno Seiwa clan to the top of the Kamurocho Hills, taking delight in the fact that Kiryu could be killed. Despite the odds, Kiryu manages to defeat the Ueno Seiwa clan and makes it to the top where Katsuragi and Kido are waiting for him with Saejima, Yasuko, and Akiyama's money. Katsuragi then tells Kiryu to hand over the file to Kido and then he'll fulfill his end of the bargain, starting with letting Yasuko go, and then handing over Saejima and the money once he confirms that the file is real. Kiryu hands the file to Kido, who lets Yasuko go….. Only for Kido to pull a gun on Kiryu and Yasuko. Katsuragi proceeds to mock them for thinking they could walk out alive, and orders Kido to kill Kiryu, Saejima, and Yasuko….. Only for Kido to shoot him repeatedly instead and hand over the file to Arai so he can take it to Munakata, refusing to betray his Aniki… Not that it saves him from getting shot by Arai anyways. After Arai flees the area, Yasuko unties Saejima… Who immediately goes towards Katsuragi to reveal that he's still alive, wearing a bulletproof vest to protect himself. Katsuragi then proceeds to mock him once more about the massacre, though Saejima ultimately decides to spare him, believing that he ain't worth killing. However, Katsuragi takes advantage of this to shoot Saejima in the shoulder when his back is turned, and proceeds to try kill him, only to mortally wound Yasuko instead. Using the last of her strength, Yasuko walks towards Katsuragi and prepares to shoot him with Tanimura's gun that he gave her earlier. Katsuragi cowardly begs for his life, but Yasuko ignores his pleas and shoots him in the head, killing him.
Migrating Qualities:
None. He has no care for the chairman or his oath brother, who he was willing to leave under the bus just to save himself. And while he wants to be free of Munakata's control, this is not portrayed in an sympathetic light, and is clearly planning to seize control from him anyways.
Heinous Standard:
Pretty tricky, but i'm convinced he just makes it. First, there's his massacre of his own men, with a confirmed number of 18 murders, and basically sending Saejima to his undeserved death for a crime that he didn't commit. Then there's his manipulating of Yasuko, and pretty much enslaving her, into killing anyone who knows the truth of the hit just to save himself from being caught, and later having Shibata killed for blackmailing him. He was perfectly willing to risk massacring all of Chinatown just to kill Tanimura and his friends. Brutally beats the Florist and his men from Purgatory just to capture Saejima and Yasuko. His desire to blackmail Munakata with the file to seize control of the Tokyo Underworld from him. Sending his entire clan to kill Kiryu and taking delight in it. And of course, going back on his deal with Kiryu and attempting to have him, Saejima and Yasuko killed. I personally think his massacre of his own men, getting Saejima sentenced to death to save his own skin, and enslaving Yasuko and manipulating her to do his bidding help him make him just heinous enough to count.
Conclusion:
A weaker keep compared to Munakata, but I keep nonetheless. Thoughts?
to Rasputin, Barthus, Megatron, José, and Isao
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 7th 2021 at 11:31:29 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffDouble post my bad
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 7th 2021 at 11:32:23 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffEh, killing 18 of his own men? Not sure that's enough. Even being willing to massacre Chinatown...that MAY do it, but considering the current keepers (including the new keepers, a human trafficker and someone who's imprisoned hundreds of (possibly innocent) people) also include someone who's a Serial Rapist; someone who's started a Mob War, someone who's planted many bombs, and someone who's massacred Little Asia, I'm not sure he makes the cut.
Megatron...weak yes to him.
Killing 18 people is one of the worst single massacres in all the Yakuza games ACW. I haven't played them all, but it's a particularly noteworthy crime. And that's before all the other people he's had killed or tried to have killed, including almost triggering a massacre in Chinatown and forcing Yasuo to murder witnesses. EDIT: Little Asia, my mistake.
As discussed,
to Isao Katsuragi.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Jul 7th 2021 at 9:16:28 AM
Yes to Megatron and a weaker one to Katsuargi.
Now from reviewing some stuff on Heroes I'd like to make a small addition to Rudolf's entry. His genocide alone was bad for death count but his forced sterilization program, headed by his BFF Ernst Falstrong—and let me tell you if that motherfucker gets any page time in the Encyclopedia he'll be going right up—reduced the population to the point that in present the Galactic Empire has only 12% of the 300 billion-person population it did when Rudolf took power. Just to be fully transparent as well Rudolf does react to Falstrong's death by a rebel attack by executing 20000 citizens as conspirators but given the obvious emphasis is on the ridiculous number of executions and their friendship seems to amount to sharing a prejudiced desire to purge the Empire of anyone they don't like on the basis of their demographics, I don't think we can adamantly claim he actually cared for the man.
All that being said we cool if I expand him a bit? This guy might be the worst Predecessor Villain I've ever seen.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Katsu and Mega.
Looks like we've found a keeper for the Back to the Future franchise.
IPP Wick Check created.If there's no indication that they care for each other—and there doesn't seem to be—then yeah, feel free to expand.
As for Yakuza...yeah, 18 may be a bad massacre, but weren't the 18 from a rival Yakuza faction? It's not like these are innocents here.
Also, Little Asia...wasn't that the place Iwami actually DID destroy? Which, to me, makes Iwami worse.
Edited by ACW on Jul 7th 2021 at 12:34:55 PM
Here's what I'm thinking:
- Kaiser Rudolf von Goldenbaum used his status as a beloved war hero to manipulate his way to ruling over humanity's galactic populace. A viciously bigoted man, Rudolf's regime sees citizens deemed undesirable interned, forcibly sterilized and executed with a death toll in the billions under the Inferior Genes Exclusion Act and his mass-sterilization campaign reduced the population from its 300 billion to only a fraction of the size even after recovering for hundreds of years. Meanwhile, Rudolf forms the High Nobles, a class of people he favors for sharing his own caucasian and Germanic ancestry and allows them to likewise torment the common citizens of the Galactic Empire, with millions killed in conflict when the latter attempt to rebel. So great is Rudolf's prejudice that when his son is born disabled, he has the attending hospital staff murdered along with his mistress and all of their families to cover up what he sees as a shameful incident. Even after his death, Rudolf's self-titled Goldenbaum Dynasty continues for a half-millennia, his nobles continuing to spread his hate and violence with Rudolf himself ultimately responsible for the single most suffering to ever be inflicted upon humanity in all of history.
Not gonna do potholes quite yet but since the tagline I've made has places for things like Politically Incorrect Villain, Corrupt Politician, Aristocrats Are Evil, etc. I'd go right to things like Final Solution and whatnot. You get eight with his new length too!
I love it because this is still without all of his crimes made explicit. Like the possible nuking of planets pirates were hiding on to win the war that made him a "hero" isn't touched on enough or how we never get word on what happened to his poor son for having the "audacity" to be born disabled. Like Braunschweig is one of the worst war criminals in present time and he doesn't even make a scratch on the endless ocean of villainy his icon got up to.

I saw Black Widow (2021) today. Man that was good, and I think we have another solid keeper.
Just wish I reserved it myself.