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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#269751: Jul 6th 2021 at 11:54:17 AM

Image works, and yes to Rip Torn's Nazi

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#269753: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:03:18 PM

All we need is a Description, I don't know enough about the franchise to give a good one. Oh and Zs'Skayr's writeup.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 6th 2021 at 12:03:34 PM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#269754: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:04:58 PM

'Yes' to Gehbert and the Unalaq rewrite.

The Zombozo image works, here's one I had already gotten so lemme go ahead and suggest it just to see which we like more:

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/vilgax_4.jpg

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#269755: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:05:10 PM

Yes to the Zombozo image.

Edited by Bullman on Jul 6th 2021 at 2:05:39 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#269756: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:06:25 PM

Vilgax is already the quote so if possible I would like to use a different character.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 6th 2021 at 12:09:10 PM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#269757: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:06:46 PM

I like the Zombozo image though personally I'm not feeling it with the Vilgax image

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#269758: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:08:48 PM

I can't even really tell what's happening in the Vilgax pic.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#269759: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:11:43 PM

Yeah like I said, Zombozo's works—Vilgax is crushing Max underfoot in the image but Zombozo's gets the point across easier, so 'Yes' to that one.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#269760: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:14:26 PM

So I have a rewrite to propose for a character from GoLion.

The orginal

  • Prince Sincline, Daibazaal's son and eventual leader of the Galran armies, is introduced presenting his father with the severed heads of the leaders of worlds he had conquered. Sincline spearheads the invasion against the planet Altea, guarded by the robot GoLion and its five pilots. Initially honorable and chivalrous, Sincline reveals his true colors when he cheats in single combat and develops a fascination with Princess Fala, one of the pilots. His obsession carries over to abducting her cousin, Princess Amue, who resembles her greatly and abusing—possibly raping—her. Sincline is notorious for his rage at subordinates and failure is usually met with swift and painful death. With no loyalty to his father, Sincline tries to assassinate him, before pulling a successful coup where he forces Daibazaal to fight the heroes with the promise he'll be restored to the throne if he wins. Naturally, Sincline sabotages his father and lets Daibazaal die before hemming in GoLion with innocent prisoners in exploding capsules. When Galra is besieged, the new King Sincline slaughters his own subordinates who wish to surrender and has no compunction trying to kill Princess Amue. When his grandmother, Daibazaal's mother and adviser Witch Honerva opposes him in grief over Daibazaal's death, Sincline viciously kills her. He later takes a hostage to ensure his escape from Galra and tries to kill the heroes via bombardment, declaring that as long as he lives, Galra will never die.

My rewrite

  • Prince Sincline, Daibazaal's son and eventual leader of the Galran armies, is introduced presenting his father with the severed heads of the leaders of worlds he had conquered. Sincline spearheads the invasion against the planet Altea. His fascination with Princess Fala carries over to abducting her cousin, Princess Amue, who resembles her greatly and abusing her. Sincline is notorious for his rage at subordinates and failure is usually met with swift and painful death. With no loyalty to his father, Sincline tries to assassinate him. Naturally, Sincline sabotages his father and lets Daibazaal die before hemming in GoLion with innocent prisoners in exploding capsules. When Galra is besieged, the new King Sincline slaughters his own subordinates who wish to surrender and has no compunction trying to kill Princess Amue. When his grandmother, Daibazaal's mother and adviser Witch Honerva opposes him in grief over Daibazaal's death, Sincline viciously kills her. He later takes a hostage to ensure his escape from Galra and tries to kill the heroes via bombardment.

I removed some of the unnecessary details and removed a crime that was stated to only be implied which doesn't really belong in CM writeups.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 6th 2021 at 12:15:18 PM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#269761: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:15:30 PM

Yes to the Zombozo image.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#269762: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:21:32 PM

Good for Zombozo. Just change the sentence to "Threatening to destroy Jinora's soul to force Korra to open the spirit portal, Unalaq attempts to kill Korra once she does so anyways." Doesn't need that much tinkering future.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#269763: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:26:14 PM

[tup] Katsuura, Georg and Gehbert

[tdown] Bern

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#269765: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:32:39 PM

Good replacement 43.[tup] I made the change in the drafts. Neither replacement line was complicated, but I went with yours though.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jul 6th 2021 at 12:35:03 PM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#269766: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:42:21 PM

[tup] Zombozo image and Unalaq rewrite. And now for the first of my Yakuza 4 Effort posts:

What's the Work?:

Yakuza 4 is the fourth installment in the Yakuza series, starring series' protagonist and ex Yakuza, Kazuma Kiryu, an loan shark named Shun Akiyama, Taiga Saejima who was believed to be responsible for 18 murders, and a cop named Masayoshi Tanimura. Each of the 4 characters would end up meeting up each other and ultimately to put an end to an conflict that threatens all of Tokyo. Said conflict was caused by two individuals, Isao Katsuragi, who I will discuss later, and the game's Big Bad and the one responsible for the events of the first game, Seishiro Munakata

Who is Seishiro Munakata? What does he do?

Seishiro Munakata is the corrupt Deputy Commissioner of the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department who desires control over the Tokyo Underworld to fulfill his own greed and lust for power. In 1985, Katsuragi had killed 18 members of his fellow Ueno Seiwa clan members and framed Taiga Saejima for it so he can become the clan's lieutenant, and has his blood brother and an undercover Yakuza pretending to be a cop, Junji Sugiuchi, file a fake report to make Saejima look like the culprit. However, Munakata was easily able to deduce the truth, and uses it to blackmail Sugiuchi into introducing Katsuragi to him so he can make Katsuragi and Sugiuchi his pawns to advance his career in exchange for keeping the report the way it was written. He later has Hiroaki Ari go undercover as a Yakuza member working for Kanemura Enterprises to infiltrate the Tojo Clan. When Tanimura's father, Taigi, discovers the conspiracy and tries to warn Saejima's sister, Yasuko, who was trying to prove her brother's innocence, Munakata has Sugiuchi assassinate him and rule his death as an accident, resulting in Taigi's son becoming a cop for the sole purpose of discovering and tracking down his father's killer.

Behind the scenes, Munakata was secretly having illegal prisons built for the purpose of controlling or disposing the Yakuza, such as Taiga Saejima who was scheduled to be executed for the crime he was framed for, and for eliminating political rivals. One of these prisons was Okinawa's Penitentiary No. 2, which is ran by a sadistic prison guard named, Saito, who is completely cruel towards the prisoners and is known for brutally torturing said prisoners, with many of them being beaten to death. Munakata also had plans to release some of the inmates to create artificial crime, which no doubt includes murder, for the sole purpose of making him and his police force look good and help destroy the Tojo Clan. Oh, and the 10 billion yen that Jingu was trying to steal in the first game, that was meant to go to Penitentiary No. 2, making Munakata the one responsible for all of the violence and death that occurs in the first game. Said scheme is also what costed Shun Akiyama's original job as he was framed for taking a million yen from a client when it was actually an money laundering scheme by Munakata and Jingu. This event would result in Akiyama losing all of his life savings and becoming homeless until the end of the first game, where he was able to gain enough money to become a loan shark.

In 2010, Saejima and Goh Hamazaki managed to escape from the prison, though not before Hamazaki steals a file that he discovers to containing info about the illegal prison, the flow of money pouring into it, the fact that the 10 billion yen was meant to be transferred to the prison, and the artificial crimes plan. Hamazaki hands the file over to Kiryu, and the two would later meet up with Yasuko, but they are soon ambushed by Saito who was sent by Munakata to recapture and brutally beat Hamazaki and kidnap Yasuko to have her killed for her knowledge of the truth about the conspiracy in 1985, only for Saito to be beaten by Kiryu, who takes Yasuko to Kamurocho to reunite her with her brother while Hamazaki stays behind to fend off the cops. Hamazaki would later die from the wounds he suffered while protecting Yasuko. Meanwhile, Tanimura ultimately finds the truth of the conspiracy and that Munakata was a part of it after defeating Sugiuchi. This results in Munakata ordering Satoshi Hisai, Tanimura's boss, to kill Sugiuchi and Tanimura, and then kill Tanimura's friends, Zhao and his daughter, Mei Hua to keep the conspiracy a secret. While he does kill Sugiuchi, Hisai however, lies to Munakata about killing Tanimura and kills himself to spare Tanimura's friends.

Munakata would later decide to take advantage of Tojo Clan Chairman Daigo Dojima's desperation to save the Tojo Clan from collapsing by claiming he will "help" him save the Tojo Clan and dispose the Ueno Seiwa clan if he works for him, has Goro Majima arrested and promotes Arai to clan captain, which Daigo agrees. Munakata would then claim that the police should maintain the status que through any means, including lawbreaking, and that the Yakuza belong in the shadows, but this is clearly an excuse for Munakata to justify his desire for control. Munakata would then have Arai and the latter's dragon, Kido, work for Katsuragi so they can steal the file and all of Akiyama's money, that Katsuragi managed to steal from Akiyama, from him when Katsuragi takes it from Kiryu in an attempt to save Saejima and Yasuko when they got kidnapped by Katsuragi, knowing full well that if the file got released to the public, his career would be over, as well as needing the money to fund his illegal prisons. Though Arai retrieves the file, has Katsuragi shot, who manages to survive via bulletproof vest, and then betrays Kido, he spares Kiryu, Saejima and Yasuko, though Yasuko and Katsuragi ended up killing each other not long afterwards, and leaves the money behind. This frustrates Munakata, who then tells Arai to retrieve the money from Kiryu and tells him to do so by kidnapping Haruka and the other kids from Morning Glory and threaten to have them killed, giving Arai an gun to kill the kids in case they try to resist. This proves to be the last straw for Arai, who instead uses the gun to seemingly kill Munakata.

Sometime later, Kiryu, Akiyama, Saejima, and Tanimura decide to place Akiyama's money on top of the Millennium Tower to lure all of their enemies into a trap. Said enemies turn out to be Daigo Dojima, Arai, Kido, and a very much alive Munakata, who arrives with an army of bodyguards. It's revealed that he figured that Arai would try to turn on him, and thus replaces the bullets in the gun with rubber bullets that can't kill anybody, but hurt like hell. Munakata then mocks the other villains before attempting to have them killed and take the money to use for his prison schemes and advance his career. However, Kiryu and his allies then arrive and fight against the villains, with Kiryu defeating Daigo, Akiyama defeating Arai, Saejima defeating Kido, and Tanimura defeating Munakata and his bodyguards. After the final battle, Tanimura prepares to kill Munakata for having his father killed, but Arai, inspired by Tanimura being one of the few good cops, convinces him to have Munakata arrested and have him rot in the very prisons he built. This causes Munakata to laugh and claim that they can't arrest him, saying that his position will prevent him from going to jail, or kill him as that will land all of them in prison as well. However, Akiyama proceeds to call Kiryu's old friend, Date, who throws newspapers revealing Munakata's crimes to all of Kamurocho, as they managed to slip him a copy of the file that Arai took beforehand. Enraged at this, Munakata attempts to shoot Akiyama with Arai's gun out of spite. Fortunately, the bullet ended up striking a stack of yen Akiyama had in his pocket, saving his life. Unwilling to be arrested for his crimes, Munakata decides to take the easy way out, and shoots himself in the head with Arai's gun.

Migrating Qualities:

Munakata claims that his plans are to cleanse the city, but in reality, it's nothing more than excuse to justify his desire to control the Tokyo Underworld, being perfectly willing to betray and kill his own allies, including his fellow officers, to accomplish his goals. So nothing redeeming here.

Heinous Standard:

At first, I wasn't sure he was heinous enough to count, but after discussing it with Polar, and relooking at Yakuza 4, I am now convinced that he makes it. Some of his heinous crimes includes, covering up a conspiracy and sending a innocent man to die, attempting to murder Tanimura's friends simply because they knew too much, and of course, attempting to have Arai kill or capture Haruka and the Morning Glory orphans to force Kiryu into giving him Akiyama's money. But the most heinous thing about him is most certainly his illegal prisons, which involves using them to dispose of Yakuza and political enemies, having a sadistic prison guard brutally torture prisoners, which results in multiple prisoner deaths, and releasing inmates to create artificial crime just to make his police force look good. While there have been torture scenes before, including in the next EP, it is still quite brutal, and was confirmed to have killed many prisoners in the process.

Conclusion:

After thinking about it and discussing it with Polar, I believe Munakata is a keeper after all. Thoughts?

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Jul 6th 2021 at 12:42:54 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#269767: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:48:37 PM

[tup]Munakata

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#269768: Jul 6th 2021 at 1:03:05 PM

I'm...not sure. How many inmates are in his prisons? Because otherwise, I'm not sure he stands out, especially for his tier.

Now, Saito, OTOH, may be worth an EP, seeing as he's just a warden and not a crime boss.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#269769: Jul 6th 2021 at 1:05:09 PM

As discussed, yes to Munakata!

And it's like hundreds of people ACW.

Saito doesn't stand out himself. He is just a warden but torture is so common in Yakuza that you need to be real bad or be as far reaching as Munakata to stand out. Saito is really just Munakata's pawn, as sadistic as he is.

Edited by PolarPhantom on Jul 6th 2021 at 1:07:29 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#269770: Jul 6th 2021 at 1:05:47 PM

Oh, so like hundreds of people who aren't even all criminals? Okay, sure to him then.

[up] Maybe, but Saito's not bad enough even for his tier?

Edited by ACW on Jul 6th 2021 at 4:08:20 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#269771: Jul 6th 2021 at 1:05:47 PM

[up][up][up] Plenty of inmates. Maybe thousands or ten thousands of prisoners.

[up][up] [nja]

[up] That I'm not sure, I'll have to think about after my Katsuragi EP. EDIT: Nevermind, Polar just answered that for me.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Jul 6th 2021 at 1:08:12 AM

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#269773: Jul 6th 2021 at 1:11:17 PM

I mean, isn't Katsuragi the one who orchestrated the massacre that Saejima is thought to have done, along with pretty much enslaving Yasuko into murdering every loose end that knows the truth about the '85 incident? Might not necessarily be heinous enough (still going through 4 right now) but he sounds like more than just a pawn to me.

EDIT: Oh, that was about Saito. Nevermind

But yes to Munakata

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jul 6th 2021 at 4:13:56 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#269774: Jul 6th 2021 at 1:13:23 PM

[up] Guess we'll find out if he's heinous enough when I EP him.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#269775: Jul 6th 2021 at 1:18:14 PM

[tup] Wilheim Gehbert and Munakata. Cut Bernkastel.


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