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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#269476: Jul 4th 2021 at 6:43:36 PM

[tup]Lazarus the cockroach man

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#269477: Jul 4th 2021 at 6:44:13 PM

Reposting my quote idea.

Emperor Nefarious: My people. I did it. At long last. The Pirates are vanquished. The Resistance is broken. And this galaxy is finally mine! That's it? Where's the joy? The bliss? The murderous enlightenment? Why don't I feel any different?!

Dr. Nefarious: Because you equated happiness with success, and now that you've achieved it, life is meaningless?

Emperor Nefarious: What could you possibly know about success you... That's it! I haven't really won yet. There are still so many other dimensions waiting to be conquered!

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#269478: Jul 4th 2021 at 6:44:43 PM

I feel like Coldman’s on the list for a good reason.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#269479: Jul 4th 2021 at 6:45:24 PM

I assumed so as well but even after searching for hours, I couldn't find him even being discussed once.

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#269480: Jul 4th 2021 at 6:47:02 PM

I will say this time I tried to keep it to things confirmed onscreen and not put anything that can be implied. Though thankfully there really isn't all that much, as most of Lazarus's crimes are onscreen and his end goal is stated by him and confirmed by his minion.

The only thing that could be implied is maybe he had something to do with Trillion, since the news media at the end claims he was their true leader, but the actual scenes with him more lean towards he was using their symbol and the coincidence in their M Os to divert attention. When asked about it he doesn't say yes or no, but his reaction is kinda an 'Oh, cute' expression and to say 'I'm my own f-word'ing cult' (forgive the censoring, I do not cuss), which to me said it was a frame up.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#269481: Jul 4th 2021 at 6:48:21 PM

Well, not all of the villains' crimes need to be onscreen as long as what is onscreen is enough for them to count.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 4th 2021 at 6:48:35 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#269482: Jul 4th 2021 at 7:01:02 PM

Yes to Lazarus.

Re: NA list. We removing Infernal Tales or what?

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 4th 2021 at 10:05:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#269485: Jul 4th 2021 at 7:58:27 PM

Why would we remove Infernal Tales? I thought it was agreed that the fic was written in poor taste.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Jul 4th 2021 at 11:14:05 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#269486: Jul 4th 2021 at 8:13:56 PM

I just remember that we decided to remove it a while ago.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#269488: Jul 4th 2021 at 8:22:50 PM

Lazarus I'm good for and Infernal Tales... forget what we decided, I'm just trying to forget it lol

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#269489: Jul 4th 2021 at 8:23:35 PM

Happy Blow Shit Up Day. Here's an EP on a character who blows shit up.

"The Special" is the Series 4 two-parter premiere from Spooks. While the main cast is attending agent Danny Hunter's funeral, a bomb goes off a few miles away. As always, the agents of Thames House never have time to take a break, so Harry Pearce and his crew are sent in to investigate, and find out a bunch of eco-terrorists are behind the attack.

Who is He?

Owen Forster is the leader of a Shining Dawn terrorist cell in London.

What Has He Done?

The first episode opens with members of Shining Dawn placing a bomb in a public venue, which explodes and kills a few dozen civilians. They demand for their visionary leader, Michael Munroe, to be released from captivity, or else they'll set off more bombs every ten hours. As MI-5 begin their investigations, Owen sends an assassin to eliminate Carl Mortimer, one of MI-5's only leads. Next up, another team is sent to a metro station for their second attack, although this one is averted by MI-5. Still living up to their word, Owen has one of his members deliver the same warning: release Munroe or another bomb will go off at 5:30am. Shortly after, Owen finds out one of their key members, Delphine, was killed due to MI-5 interference, and has been ordered by Richard Boyd, their American liaison within MI-5, to kill Adam Carter. Owen sends two of his thugs to kidnap Adam, but they grab Zafar Younis by mistake. Luckily, Adam and civilian Natasha "Tash" Scott rescue Zafar and apprehend one of the terrorists, while the other is killed.

The terrorist Adam captured reveals the next bomb was planted in a tower in Winchester Estate. Once again, MI-5 find the bomb and defuse it in time. Refusing to back down, Owen selects a new target: a hospital. Later on, Owen finds out that Tash IDed her in the train station, so he sends one of his goons to kidnap Tash and kill her escorting officer; Tash is taken to the hospital and has the bomb fused to her. After Boyd is captured by MI-5, they force him to meet with Owen in person. Boyd's superiors kill him while MI-5 officers capture Owen and later interrogate him at Thames House. Owen smugly tries to force MI-5 to release him and refuses to give up the code for the bomb. Nevertheless, Adam uncovers the code from Professor Curtis, a former Shining Dawn member, and successfully defuses the bomb while Owen is arrested.

Freudian Excuse?

None. He started his career in Animal Liberation. However, he didn't really care about the cause. He did, however, became obsessed with making bombs. Eventually, he met Michael Munroe, one of Shining Dawn's founding members, and joined the eco-terrorists. On the surface, Owen comes across as being someone who believes that humans are a plague upon the world and must be cleansed by any means necessary. In reality? He doesn't care about any of that crap. He's just a Mad Bomber who wiggled his way into the Shining Dawn's group and now uses his bomb making skills to assist the eco-terrorists.

Mitigating Factors?

The only small factor I can think of is when one of his operatives, Delphine, gets killed, Owen looks visibly irritable and angry. And shortly after finding out about this, he's ordered to kill the operatives who got Delphine killed as an act of revenge. Owen carries out the orders, but it's less because he's pissed off and wants revenge and more because "removing him would help us." Not a moment later, he orders one of his other operatives, Lydia, to replace Delphine, despite the fact Lydia tells him that "she's a significant loss." And right afterwards, he barks that he and his crew "must always have a higher pain threshold than them." He even tells Boyd, who ordered Owen to kill Adam, that seeking revenge was a mistake.

So yes, he does get pissy over Delphine's death, but then afterwards he's just like, "Eh, whatever. Replace her. Back to makin' bombs!"

Heinous Standard Factors?

Again, the show does have somewhat of a high standard. Terrorists all around, right-wing racists, secret agents from foreign countries, evil Russians doing evil Russian shiz because they're Russian, etc. Some of them try to start conflicts that may result in wars with foreign countries, but these people are very, very high up on the food chain and have tons of resources.

Owen Forster is somewhere in the mid-tier range and somewhat of a Villain of the Week. Not a street thug, but not necessarily the leader of a big-time terrorist group either; he just runs a single cell. Still, all that being said, for the leader of an eco-terrorist cell in London, Owen's responsible for bombing a marketplace and killing a few dozen civilians, attempting to bomb a train station, apartment complex, and a hospital, and sending his goons out to kill an MI-5 agent. And unlike some other bombers, Owen goes out of his way to ensure maximum casualties, such as by announcing that a fake bomb is outside the train station to cause a panic and make civilians rush back inside, and when Tash is kidnapped, instead of just killing her, he wires her body to the bomb solely so even if the hospital is evacuated, Tash will die anyway if she's moved from her location.

Final Verdict?

I'll let y'all decide.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Mimic45 Since: Feb, 2017
#269490: Jul 4th 2021 at 8:46:42 PM

[tup] to Llund and Lazarus.

And a big [tup] to the Source. BTW, it's been a while since I watched the show, but why doesn't Zankou qualify? I remember him being pretty nasty...

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#269491: Jul 4th 2021 at 8:47:03 PM

Yes to Owen Foster. Simpsons put it best—the best way to celebrate your country is to blow up a small part of it!

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#269495: Jul 4th 2021 at 9:12:41 PM

Yes to Foster. Zankou has a sense of honor and is pretty affable. He's more MB than CM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#269497: Jul 4th 2021 at 9:37:20 PM

[tup]Lazarus and Owen

It's Spooky Month!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
The-Scarecrow Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER

Total posts: 326,048
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