During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Got another Codex entry:
What is the Work?
Codex Equus, in this case the Final Ragnarok Arc set in Cervidia, the Codex equal of Scandinavia.
Who is Ragnarøkkr and What have they Done?
Ragnarøkkr is the God of Primordial Darkness, Doom, and Eternal Recurrence and the main antagonist of the final Ragnarok Arc alongside Surtr.
Ragnarøkkr and his fellow Shadowed Ones are a cabal of ancient evil gods who fed and empowered themselves off of destructive cycles...but eventually began orchestrating them, arranging for entire Pantheons or even entire countries to destroy themselves over and over again for their own benefit, normally resulting in the complete destruction of their entire populations, with Ragnarøkkr as the mastermind. This continued until they put their roots down in Cervidia and the Nine Realms, essentially this universes version of Norway, Scandinavia, and the Nine Realms from Norse Mythology, and would form an efficient, orderly cycle of destruction:
The ruling Pantheon of the land would adopt a trickster god who would be predicted to kill their sibling, the Invincible One, the prophecy and the Shadowed One's manipulation resulting in their family abusing them and turning it into a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy to trigger the massive war called Ragnarok, ending with the Shadowed Ones' 'equal partner' Surtr and his Fire Jotunn to Rape, Pillage, and Burn the Nine Realms to ashes before the cycle begins again with the next unfortunate Pantheon to arrive in Cervidia. This has been continuing for most of recorded history, tens of thousands of years, making Ragnarøkkr directly responsible for the Nine Realm's entire population being slaughtered countless times, a body count likely in the millions at a bare minimum. Ragnarøkkr, being a Malignant Narcissist, views himself as the Fate of the Nine Realms incarnate, and thus any diversion from his plans or even accidental slight towards him results in him singling out specific people for especially horrific fates, such as suggesting Surtr take them as his personal playthings and Sex Slaves between cycles, if Ragnarøkkr doesn't just do this himself. This includes at least one of his previous wives and several incarnations of his children, the Norns, something his current children are explicitly terrified of and the last of the first generation of Norns, Skuld (who turned on him), confirms directly. His current wife, Kunnusta is terrified of him and this fate and explicitly states he's never once shown her actual love to the point she can't even comprehend the concept.
This would continue until High King Kaldr, the current Top God of Cervidia, would see through this and expose Ragnarøkkr and the Shadowed Ones. During the ultimate battle with him, Ragnarøkkr tries to brutally murder Kaldr and his allies, including at one point trying to kill Kaldr by slowly growing vines into him and making it clear he wants to kill them all as painfully as possible while making them watch the Nine Realms burn before condemning them to a Reincarnation cycle where each life and death is more painful than the last. He also makes it clear he intends to take Queen Mzazi, the mother goddess of the Zebra race and Kaldr's old friend, his breeding stock to replace the followers they've killed and attempts to rape her. Once the heroes finally manage to wound him seriously, he assumes his true form, consuming a lot of people alive in the process and proceeding to ravage several armies by himself. When he's finally on the ropes and about to be killed, he attempts to blow the Nine Realms to ashes with his final attack, but is killed with his spirit Dragged Off to Hell by the Grand Primevals for a Fate Worse than Death.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Ragnarøkkr has none. His concepts not excusing it has been covered elsewhere.
He's a Child of Erebus, meaning he's a piece of the shattered, fallen Darkness Primeval Erebus who became its own being. While many Children of Erebus are evil like their progenitor, they're far from Always Chaotic Evil, as many others are benevolent or at least far, far less evil than Ragnarøkkr. For example, Skotádi serves as Erebus's Redeeming Replacement in his role as Darkness Primeval.
The other Shadowed Ones are little more than disposable pawns to him, and while he finds Surtr and amusing ally for rivalling his own depravity, it doesn't go much further than that.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Okay, so first to lay out: Ragnarøkkr is likely the single strongest villain thus far introduced outside of the Void Sovereign (a galactic scale Destroyer Deity), being a 100s of millions of years old god in a series were deities grow Stronger with Age. So by nature, he doesn't eliminate any of the other candidates because he has more resources than them with only his fellow Shadowed Ones and Surtr rivalling him thus far. To put it in perspective: the other two Fourth Age entries are capable of leveling settlements, Ragnarøkkr is capable of reducing the Nine Realms to ashes in one shot. Even Dark Crystal is a weakling compared to him.
In terms of heinousness, his body count is likely in the millions at bare minimum, likely in the billions, he's a cruel, manipulative monster who treats his wife and children as disposable pawns and will gladly condemn them to horrible fates if they displease him. He's prone to subjecting others to horrific fates purely for stepping out of line of his mechanizations.
Four of the five Shadowed Ones do rival him in heinousness, and I will likely do entries on them, but each of them is complacent and encouraging of the crimes of the other three. So while all four can count, they don't contradict one another. The biggest rival to him is probably Fegrð, who's tried to destroy life on Equus several times, but Ragnarøkkr would probably do that to maximize his cycle if he could get away with it.
The Shadowed Ones are limited in scope to Cerividia and the Nine Realms because they're on the Grand Primevals' most wanted list and if they act too overtly or over too large of an area, they'd be exposed and the Grand Primevals would kill them in a heartbeat (as strong as Ragnarøkkr is, he's no match for the Grand Primevals and knows this), as unlike Dark Crystal they're gods and thus not something mortalkind brought on themselves through their own actions. This is the only thing holding Ragnarøkkr back and otherwise he'd likely try and extend his reach to a global scale. Just being on the Grand Primevals' wanted list is a sign of how powerful, dangerous, and evil he is, as its noted they only step in against threats except as a Godzilla Threshold.
Surtr is definitely a rival, but he and Ragnarøkkr find each other's atrocities amusing and Surtr is ultimately a Psycho for Hire for Ragnarøkkr, he just has a more direct body count because Ragnarøkkr can't do it himself without attracting the Grand Primevals' attention. Even then, Ragnarøkkr is guilty of nearly every crime Surtr has committed and condones, encourages, or flat out orders the ones he hasn't. So I'd say they both count.
Final Verdict?
I say
. Ragnarøkkr is one of the most powerful and evil villains in the fic by now, and I see little reason he shouldn't count.
Edited by RenegadeHero on Jul 4th 2021 at 8:45:08 AM
@ACW Surtr definitely, the guy is a mass murdering Serial Rapist and destructive hedonist, but his storyline isn't over.
Given how massive Codex is, I imagine it's probably going to have a sizable number, again it's more of a Shared Universe than a single, long running story, but at present the only candidates I'm looking at are the other three villainous Shadowed Ones, Surtr, and Ispita, but only the Shadowed Ones' role in the story is finished.
Edited by RenegadeHero on Jul 4th 2021 at 8:54:38 AM
We discussed candidates from the past who were voted down a while back but were later voted back up a second time they were ep’d due to all of the information given to us. With that I’m fine giving a
to Ghostfreak
Oh and
to Taiga and Ragnarok
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 4th 2021 at 12:15:41 PM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
to Ragnar.
In light of Crossbones and Arnim Zola being approved, I was scrolling through the MCU list of CM's, I saw Red Skull being listed in just one film. But Red Skull also appeared in 3 more films, Avengers: Infinity War and Endgame, and I believe he still counts there. He may seem mellowed down, but he still has people sacrificed their own loved ones so he can be freed from his punishment. I think this is how the write up should be now.
- Captain America: The First Avenger, Avengers Infinity War & Avengers: Endgame: Johann Schmidt, aka the Red Skull, is a profound narcissist who believes himself a god no longer bound by humanity's rules. The head of HYDRA, a Nazi military organization, Schmidt has turned the group into his own personal cult. According to some official tie-in comics, Red Skull has Dr. Abraham Erskine's family sent to a concentration camp to making sure he works for him. When Schmidt got greedy, he created an underdeveloped Super Soldier serum, to which he deforms himself due to it, and orders his family's execution out of anger, although they would've anyway died out of a typhus outbreak. He's first introduced onscreen killing the guardian of the Tesseract and ordering the entire village where it was hidden wiped out for seemingly no reason. He goes on to betray Hitler and the Nazi party to pursue his own goals and murders the three men sent to check on the status of his research. Schmidt uses the Tesseract to make fantastic new weapons for HYDRA, and has PO Ws torturously experimented on in order to replicate Dr. Erskine's Super Serum. Despite their fanatical devotion to Schmidt, he continually shows no concern for the welfare of his men, having them chomp cyanide pills when captured to avoid giving out information on him, executing one merely for surviving an attack on a HYDRA base, and activating the self-destruct sequence at another HYDRA base when the Allied forces overrun it, not caring that hundreds of his troops will be killed in the blast. Schmidt's ultimate plan is to use his new weapons to wipe out half the planet, bombing nearly every major city including his own capital, just so he can rule over what's left. Eventually, his misuse of the Tesseract made him forced to be the guardian of the Soul Stone, to which Red Skull ends up accepting, but it is a fate where he will have to have people sacrifice their loved ones so he can give the stone, to which, he can finally be free, resulting in the deaths of some long time heroes. Even if he is a different man than what Red Skull originally was, he was no less vile.
Edited by The-Scarecrow on Jul 4th 2021 at 9:43:37 AM
Uh that's so long.
Wait why would we list him for that.
Fiege said he's just an Empty Shell at that point in those films.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Ghostfreak, Taiga, and Ragnarok.
I'll lean Keep on Zs'Skayr, but it's a light one, he doesn't much impress in heinousness but he mostly seems to technically pass the standard from what I'm hearing.
Yeah I don't see the point in expanding Schmidt's write-up to include his actions in Infinity War and Endgame, he's not depicted as some cackling, willing monster enjoying his time guarding the Soul Stone, just a depressed, empty dude who is reiterated to still be a shitty person, just one stuck in a job for eternity that he's not all that keen on. The fact that it would extend his write-up to such a massive length only further makes me not approve, personally
Edited by Ravok on Jul 4th 2021 at 10:17:10 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Yes to Ragnarøkrr and Happy 4th, everyone!
Just wondering, has anyone discussed Freddy from the Nightmare on Elm Street comics yet? I know he's got two comic incarnations that keep, but I'm talking specifically about the DC comics.

I'm guessing either High Override or Alien X (hello either way Fred Tatasciore).