During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Like I said, she seems like more or less a rampaging, well, beast to me, albeit one that can speak. I suspect either the power of the Ten-Tails or her thousand years in a can warped her somehow.
Not getting that impression myself. She's quite methodical in what she's said and done thus far. Her declaration earth is her nursery, her turning humans into white zetsus and her other dialogue indicates she's just...selfish.
She also doesn't really bother with drawn out battles. She says flat out she'll make them 'vanish' and warps the ground into lava while floating
A zetsu is basically a plant thing.
The thing about Kaguya is, retroactively, every bad thing ever is apparently her fault now. Not bad for a character only mentioned less than a year ago.
Basically just keeping a firm eye on her and Yhwach from Bleach who, thus far, is passing the tests with flying colors
edited 19th Jun '14 9:11:04 PM by Lightysnake
![]()
LOL. What a tweest.
But looking at this Naruto wiki, she sounds to me like a standard case of Jerkass Gods with perhaps some Blue-and-Orange Morality thrown in- the wiki page makes it sounds like she thinks she's helping people, but due to a weird and selfish outlook, her actions cause harm.
Trying to think how to phrase this since I have no familiarity with the series- Did she "set things in motion" in an abstract way or did she actively take a role in planning things out? Like as a comparison, Father in Fullmetal Alchemist founds a country as part of a master plan of killing everyone there and making himself a god (spoilers). It sounds like she introduced magic to the world (or something like that) but she doesn't seem really "connected" to the plot.
edited 19th Jun '14 9:14:49 PM by Hodor
Edit, edit, edit, edit the wikiYep, pretty much. She was manipulating the previous supposed Big Bad Madara to trick him into merging with the Juubi so she could take him over.
One completely innocuous side character is revealed to be a manifestation of her will, who was pushing it all together as well.
Her biggest evil deed besides this is mindraping the entire world and then transforming them into her plant soldiers, which is the same as killing them.
As far as Well-Intentioned Extremist goes, it' implied she left that behind. She basically stopped the wars with overwhelming power, but when her sons got powerful, she was consumed with bitter jealousy, and her dialogue indicates she doesn't care for them except as possessions.
She might have once had good intentions, but she certainly no longer does.
edited 19th Jun '14 9:14:03 PM by Lightysnake
Referencing my above post- yeah, she sounds kind of like Father, although replace "using people as a power source" with "turning people into plant things".
On the other hand, although again, I don't know anything about the series, I do get that possible Blue-and-Orange Morality factor in the character description and am not sure where she falls in terms of being an alien being that just doesn't think like a human versus someone like Nyarlathotep who screws with humanity For the Evulz.
edited 19th Jun '14 9:19:07 PM by Hodor
Edit, edit, edit, edit the wikiYeah, this series has gotten so loopy it's almost falling off the page. Hopefully it'll be wound up by the end of the year.
With that said, in the interest of actually saying something useful... considering she started out trying to stop war (even if it might have been partly out of ego) and her sense of otherness that keeps one from just hating her like one did Orochimaru or Danzo, I doubt she counts. But yeah, might as well keep a sharp eye on her (and I have got to catch up on Bleach, I don't even know how many months it's been).
Also,
on Lorne Malvo. I held off at first because he's fun enough to watch that you almost want him to win, but then you can say the same about Palpatine.
edited 19th Jun '14 9:17:24 PM by YamiVizzini
To call her entirely out of left freaking field is a massive understatement. The series' ability to switch the Big Bad at the drop of a hat is practically memetic at this juncture.
Yhwach thus far...he's a ruthless overlord who has no feeling whatsoever towards his men and people. His intro scene is killing two subordinates for literally no reason whatsoever. He later leads an invasion on the Soul Society which result in massive casualties. Yhwach uses one of his own men disguised as himself to fight the leader of the opposing army, Yamamoto Genryuusai. When his man is injured, Yhwach 'thanks' him for his service by killing him, and then kills Yamamoto.
It's revealed that Yhwach once also initiated a 'Holy Purge' his race, the Quincies. When awoke, he drained all their powers back into himself, killing the vast majority (it left the hero's mother to her own death as she was facing a deadly monster at the time).
It's revealed that Yhwach has been thought of as a god since he was young. To keep his vitality, he doles out pieces of his soul, engraving a power of his on the recipient's soul. However, when they die, he gains his power back with their souls. The entire war is a way to get stronger, sacrificing his own people while killing the enemy. every death makes him stronger.
I just found out that the link to the Godzilla subpage was never added to film. I've just requested it again.
Anyway, as promised a rewrite for Durge. The current one focuses too much on his Generic Doomsday Villain status in the original Clone Wars series and not enough on his actions in the comics.
- Most Gen'Dai are pacifistic recluses who never leave their homeworld. Alas, this was not the case with Durge, bounty hunter, assassin, and Separatist commander during the Clone Wars. One of the most prolific Jedi hunters of the war, Durge made his first appearance on one of Naboo's moons, where he and Asajj Ventress massacred the the local Gungans in a test of their new chemical weapon—a weapon they were planning to use against the planet Naboo next. When a squad of Jedi and clone troopers arrived to investigate, Durge tried to kill them all, even going so far as to try and skin Padawan Zule Xiss alive. Later, during the battle of Queyta, Durge would open fire on his own men, using the explosions caused by their deaths to kill a pair of Jedi Masters, one of whom he finished off by submerging in lava. Obsessed with having the title of greatest bounty hunter ever, Durge made an attempt on the life of Jango Fett's son, Boba, and would go out of his way to kill Jango's clones, all in the name of cementing his reputation. Finally slain after slaughtering the entire crew of a captured ship, Durge was as vile as even a bounty hunter could get.
And since Nightshade was voted up but I don't believe I ever did a write-up, here goes:
- Magic Kingdom of Landover: Ben Holiday has had many bitter enemies, but none so vicious or persistent as the witch Nightshade. Part human, part fairy, and all vindictive bitch, Nightshade marked her first appearance by damning Ben's friends to Hell in Magic Kingdom for Sale/Sold, an experience which nearly killed them all. She made two more attempts on his life in The Black Unicorn and Wizard At Large, and after an enchantment forced her to care about him in Tangle Box, responded by trying to murder his wife and kidnap his newborn daughter. It's in Witches' Brew, however, where Nightshade truly comes into her own. She tries to kill Questor Thews, Abernathy, and the Gnome, Poggwydd, and succeeds in kidnapping Ben's daughter Mistaya. Convincing Mistaya that they are friends, she forces the girl to create a series of monsters which she looses on Ben, intending that he should either be killed, or driven mad by his constant transformations into The Paladin. When this plan too fails, Nightshade gives Mistaya a poisoned brooch and sends her to hug her father, intending that Ben should die at his daughter's hands. Concerned only with her own pride, Nightshade was willing to cross any line if it meant making Ben suffer.
How do those look?
edited 19th Jun '14 9:32:13 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Found this while marathon-ing Black Bullet:
Complete Monster: The Hiruko pair of all spades. All they want to do is cause pain, death, and suffering around others and they do so for the giggles. It doesn't help that their actions caused the public and the government to treat the cursed children even worse.
... Seriously, we are not done with the novel yet!
edited 19th Jun '14 9:32:07 PM by AnoBakaDesu
"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom PainSomeone brought up Takaya from Persona3 a few pages back, I'd like to remind people we already voted no on him and while we were at it also disqualified the other candidates. So if anyone is attempting to add them to any pages kill it with fire.
edited 20th Jun '14 12:09:04 AM by Shaoken
For Kaguya, I'd say she counts so far, though only time will tell.
Someone asked what 'Zetsu' are. They were first revealed to be 'artificial humans' created from Hashirama Senju's own DNA and were Akatsuki's primary soldiers in the Fourth Shinobi World War. But their true origin is far darker. White Zetsu are the product of the worldwide Mind Rape Infinite Tsukuyomi. Those trapped in it are slowly turned into obedient soldiers for Kaguya, losing all their original traits. 100,000 were 'created' for the War, which means 100,000 people of the previous civilization that Kaguya enslaved were killed.
To end the Wars in her era, Kaguya didn't just throw her power around. She initiated her own Infinite Tsukuyomi to turn everyone living into her mind raped soldiers. Hence why she called Earth her 'garden', since that is what it is.
Add that to the fact she tried to kill her own sons since they had gotten strong with chakra, openly admitted to hating them, and her manifested will is responsible for the entire Uchiha vs Senju conflict and the current War...she has quite the rapsheet.
edited 20th Jun '14 12:33:45 AM by SuperSaiyaMan
26818: Sounds like the Nibiru Entity. Only that show did it gradually.
And I had taken care of
Godzilla.
edited 20th Jun '14 1:53:05 AM by ACW
Good grief, beaten at Myth Arc buildup by a Scooby-Doo show. That's gotta smart.
On the subject of Yhwach, I don't know why we haven't already added him, really. From what I'm given to understand about Bleach, it hasn't really gone in for the sudden-last-minute-redeeming-quality-to-the-Big-Bad thing that other shonen apparently is fond of.
edited 20th Jun '14 4:15:11 AM by nrjxll
I've been rewatching the Underworld films, and they made me wonder about whether or not Viktor would count. As far as I can tell (from using the search function) there's been no discussion about him in this thread. The main issue, I reckon, is what to make of his messed up relationship with his daughter. Should I attempt an effortpost on the subject?
He clearly loved his daughter. Selene too.
edited 20th Jun '14 5:19:50 AM by LogoP
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
