During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I have another one.
What is the Work
Ape City is another Planet of the Apes comic series released in 1990 by Malibu publishing.
Who is Scab and What Has He Done?
Scab is a member of the Vindicators a group of 6 sent forward in time to eliminate as many apes as they can. Scab is the most brutal and evil member of the Vindicators and the one who takes the most active pleasure in the atrocities that the group commits. The Vindicators start off their spree by killing over 50 apes.
However, they returned to their ship and realized that they could not use it without the power of the crystals. Moments later, Baboonjas, Vindicators and gangsters burst in from three sides at once all of them searching for the crystal. The battle raged on for a while and Scab decided on his own to end the fight by launching a napalm at the other factions' base to wipe them out in one go.
After this, the Vindicators kind of just vanish.
Does he have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
None to speak of while he was sent by the US government there is no evidence he has any good intentions and he was also a criminal before being sent and he does not show any explicit care for his teammates.
Does he meet the Heinousness Standard?
Now I will admit I can't really tell if this is set in the same continuity as the other Malibu Comics ones so I will be treating this as separate. Scab isn't the worst you can imagine but I think he does enough he takes part in the atrocities of the group with sadistic pleasure which includes killing over 50 apes. He also does do something to stand out from his teammates, that is trying to launch a napalm at the enemy bases on his own to wipe them out in one go simply because he was bored with the fight.
His resources are also pretty low so that should help him when it comes to standing out.
Final Verdict?
Eh not super confident on this one but I am leaning towards a yes.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jun 28th 2021 at 11:38:10 AM
Sure to Scab. On the lower end, but bad enough, and it's not like the franchise heinous standard is so high as to result in Van Zant Syndrome.
So basically a Karma Houdini? Dammit.
Basically, he just kind of disappears along with the rest of the Vindicators. Also, we have a rare example of a Token Evil Teammate CM, though a Downplayed one.
'Yes' to Scab
Gonna snatch up Simon Pegg's coming TV series of Galaxy Quest for discussion, love that movie!
Alrighty, with thanks to the old lady for showing me this comic, got us a nice Keeper from them good ol' European comics...
What's the work?
Miss Don't Touch Me is a 2008 French comic by Hubert Boulard, in which we follow an...interesting plot. A woman in 1930s France named Blanche, investigating the death of her sister at the hands of the vile serial killer "the Butcher of the Dances", begins working at a high-class brothel known as the Pompadour as a dominatrix so as to find clues and leads...putting her directly in the path of the Butcher.
Or, I should say, the person who created the myth of the Butcher.
Who is Judith? What has she done?
A tall, brutish madame at the Pompadour who oversees several of the consorts, Judith realized some time ago that there was an extra profit to be made off of women...their deaths.
Judith developed a kidnapping and snuff ring with this mindset, forcing her abused, too-good-for-this-world sidekick Annette to be her accomplice as she formulates her ring. She pays thugs to kidnap women, hold them in cellars underneath a church, then lets clients come in and torture + rape the women to their heart's content until the victim dies.
Judith then has her men butcher the bodies to cover up the BDSM-style torture wounds and dump them in the woods, Judith deliberately taking inspiration from Jack the Ripper to paint the killings as the work of a serial killer. Thus, the "Butcher of the Dances" is born.
When one of Pomadour's workers found the ring, Judith had her killed. When a young woman named Agatha accidentally witnessed the butchering of a corpse, Judith's men shoot her dead... unfortunately, Agatha's sister Blanche becomes determined to find the Butcher, joins the Pompadour as a dominatrix, and begins investigating.
Soon enough, as more and more killings happen, Blanche finds out the truth but is captured to be the latest victim of Judith's snuff ring. When Annette desperately pleads for Blanche's life, Judith responds by just punching Annette to the floor.
Luckily, several of Blanche's friends track her down, and as they rescue the woman, Judith tries to take her current client—a powerful member of royalty—as a hostage with a knife to escape. Blanche though, having none of it, just grabs a gun, strolls up to Judith and shoots her point-blank in the face, uncaring if the hostage died either way thanks to being one of Judith's "clientele."
And as Judith's secret stash of blackmail photos she took of her clients in the torture process are found and amount in the dozens, Annette herself is unceremoniously executed via guillotine, no sympathy afforded her despite her obvious status as an abused puppet.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Nada, she seems to put up a stern-but-caring attitude towards the brothel women but she's obviously by the end just concerned for her own monetary gain and has zero issue abusing and murdering the brothel women if they cross her.
Heinousness?
Worst in the comic, Volume 2's villains are utterly lackluster and while she's ultimately supplying a service to clients—ergo we've got several rapists, torturers, etc—Judith is the mastermind of the snuff trafficking scheme that leads to dozens of tortures, rapes and murders, violently and emotionally abuses Annette into being her accomplice, and eliminates anyone who finds the truth.
Final Verdict?
Eeeeeyep!
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Okay, so Thawne didn't work out, maybe the Big Bad will.
Who is Brainiac? What have they done?
Just like in the main game, Brainiac is trying to (unknowingly) free Darkseid from his prison with an astroid in exchange for knowledge and power. As a distraction, he sends out various villains to cause catastrophe all across the globe, mainly send total psychos like Killer Frost and Professor Zoom to take out entire cities and coastlines.
After all the villains have been defeated, and many cities saved, Flash learns that Brainiac has personally invaded Metropolis and heads there (along with the heroes he can call in for support) to confront him. Confronting Brainiac in his ship that was placed on top of the Daily Planet, Brainiac reveals he has set a timer that will atomize all of Metropolis in an effortless get the heroes out of his hair. Flash is having none of it and defeats the psychotic android, though fails to stop the release of Darkseid, leading a Sequel Hook that I think it's safe to say will never come.
Mitigating Factors?
Brainiac is definitely given much more weight then Thawne, especially since a two-minute Final Boss with a Non-Standard Game Over is guaranteed to cause tension!
He was also still being played be Darkseid but just like the main game he still does a lot on his own accord. Along with doing enough different from the office to not just be a copy and paste of it.
Heinous Standard?
Now, as the one behind everything, having villains attempt to destroy cities all across the globe, giving Thawne the means to flood the pacific coast, and personally taking over and attempting to atomize metropolis? Brainiac most definitely meets the standard. Especially helps that Darkseid really doesn't do much but provides a Sequel Hook.
Final Verdict?
Much more certain
from me!
Yes to Judith...Annette getting sentenced to death irks me though (I feel like that should be a trope; the opposite of Karma Houdini).

Ehh, now switching on a nay on Thawne