TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#267051: Jun 22nd 2021 at 5:07:52 PM

No clue yet.

I still have to get a second opinion from light on a few.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#267052: Jun 22nd 2021 at 7:03:54 PM

I'll check a few...probably 5 more Charmed baddies from my own end as of now.

But now another horror film. This'll be rela quick as this is very, very basic:

What's the work?

Evilspeak is a film that served as an early role for none other than the great Clint Howard. One of the infamous "Video Nasties" of yesteryear. "An outcast cadet named Stanley Coopersmith, who frequently gets tormented by his mates and advisers at a military academy. Upon finding a book of black mass that belonged to the evil medieval Father Esteban, he taps through a computer to conjure Satan and summons spells and demons to get revenge upon his harassers."

So, let's talk...Father Lorenzo Esteban!

Who is Lorenzo Esteban?

Played by Richard Moll and also Clint Howard later...Lorenzo was a twisted devil worshiper who engaged in mass human sacrifice. We get a glimpse of this early with Esteban killing loads of people in the prologue before being captured, with a legion of horrific crimes, torture, sacrifice for power....Esteban is banished from Spain for his blasphemy against god and driven away. He eventually dies but transcribes his spells in a journal...and leaves his soul bound to the spot where it finds its way into the computers later when a military academy hits.

If this wasn't enough, Esteban begin to corrupt the outcast Stanley, promising him power in exchange for more power to get revenge...things go bad when a sacrifice results in the bullies stealing and murdering Stanley' beloved puppy...so Esteban lets Stanley use his power, whereupon he possesses the poor lad and goes to town on everyone and everything there. Esteban slaughters the bullies and everyone else in the academy with a massive slaughter, that kills everyone...only Stanley survives...

Revealed to be in an asylum, Stanley is not insane but corrupted by the evil priest...taking his place in the computer, reading "By the four beasts before the throne. By the fire which is about the throne. By the most holy and glorious name, Satan. I, Stanley Coopersmith will return. I will return!"

Mitigating issues?

Nope. We see plenty of the murders and Esteban is responsible for everything, including corrupting Stanley's soul with a respectable and brutal bodycount. Esteban has a character enough and...well, everything else there? Yeah, the film is just plain, trashy fun and Lorenzo Esteban is the major villain with Stanley a definite Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds turned to the dark side by the wicked priest...who kinda wins in the end.

Conclusion?

A keeper.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#267053: Jun 22nd 2021 at 7:05:16 PM

[tup]Lorenzo

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#267056: Jun 22nd 2021 at 7:17:29 PM

[tup]Esteban (couldn't they have picked a name that sounds better than "Video Nasties", it sounds stupid)

[down]I know that, but they could've called it "Evil Movies" or "Movies that came from Satan's hole" or anything other than something that says "nasties" unironically.

Edited by nwotyzal on Jun 22nd 2021 at 7:24:30 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#267057: Jun 22nd 2021 at 7:19:07 PM

That was kinda the censorship thing back then.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#267058: Jun 22nd 2021 at 7:19:34 PM

Yes to Esteban.

Edited by Bullman on Jun 22nd 2021 at 9:19:54 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#267059: Jun 22nd 2021 at 7:29:12 PM

Oh yeah, this movie. [tup] Lorenzo

It's Spooky Month!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#267060: Jun 22nd 2021 at 7:52:01 PM

[tup] Rycroft (I do not like canceled-on-a-claffhianger-karma-dodgers; I do not like them Sam I Am), Crazy Humphrey Bogart, Bob "Absolute Evil" The Octopus, Esteban, and Decade.

Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#267061: Jun 22nd 2021 at 7:55:02 PM

I saw that Michael "Mikey" Holt from the obscure 1992 slasher film Mikey is listed as a Complete Monster. While he is certainly not what would you call a good guy, he does have a somewhat decent enough Freudian Excuse involving abusive parents that shaped him into an evil serial killer unlike say Henry Evans from The Good Son. So I'm unsure on whether he even counts as a straight-up CM because of this very reason though considering we're not meant to sympathize with him, he exists somewhere in a gray area of sorts.

Edited by Chrononaut70 on Jun 22nd 2021 at 8:43:58 AM

DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#267062: Jun 22nd 2021 at 7:59:33 PM

[tup] to Decade, Siren Head and Lorenzo.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#267063: Jun 22nd 2021 at 8:04:17 PM

[up][up] That is interesting looking at the old EP that was brought up but TBNY said It was a red herring.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jun 22nd 2021 at 8:04:32 AM

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#267064: Jun 22nd 2021 at 8:06:28 PM

I saw Mikey before. I wasn't sure if he was a CM when I watched it but I think he was actually effort posted before and was downvoted for loving his pet which that ep didn't address.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#267065: Jun 22nd 2021 at 8:08:05 PM

Yeah I brought that up and it was determined that he only valued his fish as a murder weapon.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#267066: Jun 22nd 2021 at 8:13:40 PM

[tup] Slendy, Ragnarok, Decade, Xavier, GM, Eames, Siren Head, Absolute Evil and Esteban

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#267067: Jun 22nd 2021 at 8:22:10 PM

@Chrononaut we had a long, arduous conversation about whether that holds up.

[down][down]I thought there was some discourse on his backstory. Either that or I'm misremembering things.

Edited by nwotyzal on Jun 22nd 2021 at 9:23:56 AM

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#267069: Jun 22nd 2021 at 9:21:28 PM

There was actually almost no conversation about Mikey. He was upvoted but not a lot of dialogue, most focus seems to have been on Grievous.

Seems to have had a question or two asked but likewise simmered out fast.

Edited by 43110 on Jun 22nd 2021 at 12:25:15 PM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#267070: Jun 22nd 2021 at 9:24:58 PM

A few pages later, a lot of discourse happened over his fish but not his backstory - I do remember that the discussion took a few days to pop up, but it did occur. Nothing on his backstory, though

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#267071: Jun 22nd 2021 at 9:25:59 PM

That's the weird thing, it'll get brought up coinciding with something else that seems to divert focus every time lol

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#267072: Jun 22nd 2021 at 9:37:15 PM

Perhaps we should check on this then...because this seems kinda important?

The tropes page just says

  • Abusive Parents: Mikey's biological parents are suspected to have been abusive to him. Which would explain a lot.

Is it just suspected? How deeply is this gone into?

Edited by Lightysnake on Jun 22nd 2021 at 9:37:43 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#267073: Jun 22nd 2021 at 9:37:34 PM

[up][up] IT’S A CONSPIRACY!!!!!!

Edited by MasterN on Jun 22nd 2021 at 9:37:43 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#267074: Jun 22nd 2021 at 9:40:11 PM

Here, I'll ping ~TBNY so he can talk about it. I will say that the "suspected" lines up with what he said about it being a Red Herring, but I say we wait for what he has to say

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#267075: Jun 22nd 2021 at 11:03:58 PM

[tup] to Father Lorenzo Esteban.

As for Mikey, I can't address the Abusive Parents point against him and we'll have to wait for TNBY to get back to us, but I offered my thoughts on his potential care for his pet pirahnas and how it couldn't be mitigating here. Still, I'll wait for TNBY to get back to us on Mikey's potentially mitigating backstory.

@Mimic45: Happy birthday too. Sorry for missing this one earlier.


Total posts: 326,048
Top