During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Look I really don't care if we keep the quote or not. I just wanted to be helpful.
Edited by Bullman on Jun 18th 2021 at 12:26:24 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadOops, left off the intro - here is the EP for Queen Nehellenia of the Dark Moon, from Sailor Moon Eternal.
What is the Work?
Fighting evil by moonlight, winning love by daylight - it's one of the most famous superhero franchises of all time, Sailor Moon! Across multiple versions, Sailor Moon tells the story of teenager Tsukino Usagi, a Japanese crybaby who, in what first seems like a chance meeting, is gifted the power to transform into the superhero Sailor Moon by a mysterious cat named Luna. Sailor Moon fights various intergalactic forces of chaos across space and time, falls in love with her soulmate Chiba Mamoru, and bonds with her various interplanetary Sailor Senshi, other protectors of the galaxy powered by their namesakes.
The particular branch of Sailor Moon canon focused on here is Sailor Moon Eternal, the film continuation of the reboot Sailor Moon Crystal. This reboot follows the original 1992 manga from Takeuchi Naoko much more closely than the 90s anime, and was sold on this point. Eternal has some notable deviations, though, allowing for the presentation of this particular CM candidate, Queen Nehellenia of the Dark Moon.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
Queen Nehellenia is the queen of the Dark Moon, said to be the inside of the Moon. (No one said Sailor Moon was geologically accurate okay) She seeks to rule the Moon, claiming it to be her right. She never elaborates on why she thinks that, so the excuse comes off very shallow, especially since she pivots a lot to ruling the Earth as well in this film.
In the past White Moon Kingdom, Queen Nehellenia appeared to Queen Serenity on the day of Princess Serenity's birth, for a purpose that neither the Queen nor the young Sailor Senshi sworn to protect Princess Serenity can determine. Nehellenia tells the Queen that light cannot exist without darkness, but, seeing and feeling her evil aura, the Queen banishes her to a mirror realm, to prevent her from taking over the White Moon kingdom. Nehellenia, in her final words before banishment, curses the White Moon line, starting with the infant Princess Serenity, vowing that their kingdom would collapse and the Dark Moon would rise from the ashes. The White Moon Kingdom's destruction at the hands of Queen Beryl is detailed in the first season of Sailor Moon Crystal, and the movie is ambiguous as to whether Nehellenia's curse actually caused the destruction (Sailor Saturn, guardian of destruction and rebirth who dealt the final death knell to the Kingdom, suggests that fate doomed the White Moon Kingdom, but also says she didn't sense that there could have been a force behind Beryl/the Dark Kingdom, leaving it up in the air. Note that other curses Nehellenia casts in the film do work as intended).
In the current timeline, a solar eclipse allows Nehellenia to escape her mirror prison and seek out the remnants of the White Moon Kingdom - Tsukino Usagi/Sailor Moon, Chiba Mamoru/Tuxedo Mask, their Sailor Senshi, and 30th century refugee Chibi-Usa/Sailor Chibi Moon - to destroy and curse them once again. Her earliest action is to imprison the priest Helios, who oversees the ruins of Mamoru's former kingdom Elysion, and protects Mamoru and the Earth's source of power, the Golden Crystal. Helios' capture, and subsequent cursing to be a Pegasus, is directly responsible for Mamoru developing a shadow in his lungs and becoming terminally ill. Nehellenia also senses the power of four unawakened Sailor Senshi in the Amazon, the Sailor Quartet, and uses dark magic to force them to awaken decades prior to their ascension and brainwash them to serve her evil desires, turning them into the Amazoness Quartet. All of their crimes, which include the attempted murders of the four Sailor Senshi individually and an entire cadre of girls auditioning to become famous idols, can be attributed to Nehellenia's brainwashing and influence, and I'd argue should be on her hands. (I'm trying to keep this EP short but can provide details of these attempted murders and the idol thing if requested.)
After the eclipse, Nehellenia sets up the Dead Moon Circus in the Senshi's home turf of Azabu-Juban District in Tokyo under the guise of Zirconia, and things immediately take a turn for the worse there. The district is shown sliding into violence throughout the film, with the last shot showing it as a destroyed hellhole where people are actively beating each other up in the streets and the oppressive heat is making people pass out. Zirconia is also shown, at various points in the film, to be putting normal citizens in comas using her Lemures (nightmare monsters) at the circus itself in multiple areas, including in a hall of mirrors that was trapping individuals (including Hino Rei/Sailor Mars) inside with the intent of killing them and the actual big top tent show itself.
Mamoru's condition eventually spreads to Usagi due to their strong soul bond, and both are shown to be in excruciating pain in the second half of the film from Nehellenia's curse - coughing up blood, hardly able to walk or leave their beds, and faltering strongly in their confrontations with Nehellenia in its early stages.
Upon the reawakening of the Outer Senshi, the entire team, including violently ill Usagi and Mamoru, is ambushed by Zirconia and the Amazoness Quartet at that idol audition. Zirconia wounds Usagi and Mamoru even further, cruelly de-aging them and leaving them as shivering toddlers while claiming that it is every person's fate to die. The trapped Helios, who has been communing with Chibi-Usa mentally (there was SO MUCH GOING ON IN THIS MOVIE), uses what little power he still has to transport the pair to Elysion to save and re-age them, where they witness the destruction that Nehellenia has wrought on his dead, barren planet. This includes the area being an overheated wasteland, but also poisonous black roses, which are the items that have sickened Usagi and Mamoru so deeply. After yet another ambush from Nehellenia, Helios uses the last of his life to send Usagi and Mamoru back to earth with purifying crystals, to see that Nehellenia has choked Juuban in a dense, hot fog. Helios' crystals allow the Senshi to at least attempt to fight back. A multi-planetary battle ensues.
The only important bit of the battle for our purposes is that Nehellenia manages to seize Sailor Moon's life-giving Silver Crystal in the battle, nearly killing her, and prepares to use it to destroy the remnants of the White Moon and rule the world. She explicitly talks about ruling the earth with it. (To which Usagi says that the earth rules itself.) Tuxedo Mask is able to use the power of the Golden Crystal to save Sailor Moon, and the combined power of her Senshi allows her to be reborn as Sailor Moon Eternal. SM Eternal's new power is enough to reclaim the Silver Crystal and force Nehellenia back into her mirror. Aging into Zirconia rapidly due to SM Eternal's power, she is then dusted and shot into the sun by SM Eternal.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Pretty much every mitigating factor and Freudian Excuse Nehellenia has had in other variations of the series has been removed in this film. To list:
- Nehellenia is not obsessed with her youth and desire to remain beautiful here, like in the 90s anime; her motivation in Eternal is power and the petty destruction of the White Moon line so that she can be in power.
- Nehellenia notably is not implied to be a pawn of Chaos, unlike the manga and the 90s anime. The ultimate evil in the Sailor Moon manga universe, Chaos/Sailor Chaos birthed all of the previous Sailor Moon villains in the manga as means to attempt to destroy the universe, and is said to only exist to try and destroy the galaxy as we know it time and time again. Were Chaos to exist in this universe, Nehellenia would be out-heinoused by her, but there's no indication that there is anyone working behind Nehellenia in the film proper.
- Nehellenia's sympathetic backstory from the 90s anime is not present at all. Never was Nehellenia implied to be a force for good, and her first appearance chronologically makes it very clear that Queen Serenity regards her as a foe from the start.
She has no Freudian Excuse - "I am the true ruler of the Moon" isn't a sympathetic or consistent motivation, and unlike this universe's Wiseman, Nehellenia never shows any problems with the White Moon Kingdom system beyond the fact that she's not currently ruling it. You can't even say she was unduly offended about being snubbed at a baby shower, because she never shows even the remotest decorum when attending Princess Serenity's birth and no one buys for a second that she's a benevolent visitor.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
I argue yes. Sailor Moon has some notable Omnicidal Maniac characters across all of its incarnations, but in the Crystal continuum, no other villain has so doggedly pursued Usagi and the White Moon across time. Nehellenia will not be satisfied until she rules the Moon and Earth in the past, present, and future, something that differentiates her from Pharaoh 90 (who wanted to take over the current timeline earth to propagate his people) and Wiseman (who was a Well-Intentioned Extremist against the 30th century Moon Kingdom's immortality and only invaded the past because of Princess Chibi-Usa escaping there). Additionally, the very personal manifestation of her attacks (cursing Usagi and Mamoru with, for all intents and purposes, terminal illness, and further toying with them while deathly ill; cursing a baby and her family to multiple lifetimes of destruction for no real reason) is a level of heinous that Sailor Moon villains rarely reach.
The lack of foreshadowing or mention of Chaos, plus the lack of announcement of an adaptation of the StarS manga where she appears, would make Nehellenia in a class of her own in terms of heinousness in the universe. Even if you don't put the entire destruction of the White Moon Kingdom on her curse's hands (I think it's laid out well enough to say she is responsible), she brainwashed four innocent women to do her murderous bidding, was visibly putting hundreds of innocents into nightmare comas, doomed multiple locales to a full environmental death, tortured Usagi and Mamoru with their painful black rose-induced illnesses, and was expressly trying to rule the Earth and turn it into a complete wasteland.
Final Verdict?
I would vote
on Queen Nehellenia. What say you?
Edited by LargoQuagmire on Jun 18th 2021 at 10:40:39 AM
Nehellina sounds like a 'Yes' to me, solid work!
@Bull: You didn't do anything wrong here, I think it's totally fair to request a rediscussion on the page quote if enough people want the variety. If we decide the current is good, that's fine by me—but I think there's more than enough precedent to bring up possible replacements especially in the same stroke as replacing the current image.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
this Nehelenia.
Speaking of which, I know we have been getting this question a lot, but with the new agency rule, could any of the previously rejected/cut Sailor Moon characters qualify?
Edited by MasterN on Jun 18th 2021 at 10:56:20 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.Well then, without further ado, here's yet another Spawn baddie.
What's the work?
Spawn: The Dark Ages is one of the many spinoffs of the popular long-running indie comic book series, Spawn, set in the Dark Ages. No relation to Medieval Spawn, this yarn follows the exploits of Lord Iain Covenant, a Crusader-turned-Hellspawn who, several issues in, has freed himself from his curse. One night, while sleeping under a tree, he encounters his successor in a necroplasmic amniotic sac, someone who was far worse in life than he ever was.
Who is Yagher Dien? What has he done?
Yagher Dien was, in his own words, "a killer, a thief, a defiler, [and] a liar", a misanthrope who killed solely because he enjoyed killing and hated his own species, and who Malebolgia took a special liking to him as Covenant's successor. His very first murder was of his own brother, with his reasoning being that he would have more food at the table than him. Later in life, he became a despotic ruler over a village in Ireland where he claimed over 7,000 lives of men, women, and children.
Around the time Covenant disappeared from the sight of Hell, Yagher was dragged to a field by an angry mob of his own villagers, where he was brutally (and justly) tortured and finally torn to pieces. Malebolgia placed him on the earth, though since Covenant was still around, Yagher became a "seedling", hanging from a tree in an amniotic sac made up of necroplasm. He ineffectively pleads with Covenant to release him and his evil upon the world. Covenant, disgusted by Yagher's tale, rips open the sac and destroys the abomination, despite knowing it would alert Hell's presence to him.
Mitigating qualities?
Now... we don't see every one of his deeds in detail (probably for the best), but there's enough images of them for it to be clear he's not exaggerating. We see an image of him drowning his brother, the villagers lynched at his hand while he's presumably forcing a young woman into... performing services on him, so really, I'd say it's enough. Other than that, no. He's a total Card-Carrying Villain who knows that he's pure evil and doesn't pretend to be anything but.
Heinous standard?
It's a Spawn spinoff. It's gonna be pretty big, so I'll just break it down to the worst of them: Cogliostro is a bit more than the amoral trickster he is in the main series, being willing to sacrifice Christian children to pagan gods, but his moral stances are ambiguous as always and repeatedly teams up with Covenant to take on bigger threats. The first villains of the story was a lord named Rivalen and his henchman DuBlanc, who are only 99% monster because the former loved his wife and became worse when she died; the latter spares a villager for no real reason at all despite having every opportunity to kill him. There's a whole bunch of other villains that appear, including the Phlebiac brothers, who slaughter everyone in Covenant's village and frame him for the deaths, but they still don't do enough.
Verdict?
Perhaps not the worst Spawn villain (like you can really measure that), but still seems like a keeper to me.
Edited by Stellarvore on Jun 18th 2021 at 1:22:10 PM
Also I just noticed that the Kagan quote I proposed is much smaller than all the others in format
So I'm gonna fix that.
Rayne: Severin, Kagan didn't just kill my mother, or rape her, or drive her insane. He also murdered her entire family. He murdered an entire family so that I'd have no one to turn to but him. Wasn't even cruelty, just his policy. For all the dhampir he created.
—BloodRayne 2
Yes to Nehelenia and Yagher. (Yagher only appears in #22 right?)
What did Rivalen and Du Blanc do?
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.![]()
Happy birthday!
Should MCU!Skull's writeup be expanded to cover his comic actions? The bit about the Night of the Long Knives seems worth adding.
Yes to the Warrior. Sounds more Knight Templar than Well-Intentioned Extremist.
Yes to Gordeau. Mind writing him up this weekend? I wanna request the page lock Tuesday.
Abstain on Walrus.
I'm fine having Skull be both the quote and the image. He's the OG MCU CM; and, he's, you know, Red Skull
Yes to the Queen. I assume Chaos in the manga is Made of Evil?
Yes to Yagher Dien.
Edited by ACW on Jun 19th 2021 at 6:07:37 AM
I just want to say that the draft for Dr. Henry Miller misses out on some of his worse crimes (pulling out Dave's organs to see how far will he go to be with Henry or laughing in Jack's face when seeing him dying, among others). I propose a change to add those and some others.
From:
- Dr. Henry Miller is a dangerous Serial Killer and Mad Scientist who killed numerous kids in his own pizzeria and put their souls into machines, torturing them to be obedient, in the hope of having a soul helping him to pass the barrier that divides the living world from the afterlife. Henry manipulates his own "partner" William Afton into helping him, arranging his horrible fate in a suit to make him a murdering monster and causing a multitude of deaths throughout the Freddy Fazbender locations, eventually damning numerous souls and causing more destruction. In the "Evil Route", Henry possesses Jack, making him insult and then brutally kill William/Dave, to continue his killing spree.
To:
- Dr. Henry Miller, the Greater-Scope Villain of the trilogy, is a Serial Killer and Mad Scientist who would kill numerous kids in his own circus-turned-pizzeria as well as in rival locations, and put their souls into machines so he could pass the barrier between the living world and the afterlife. Henry would then manipulate his "partner", William Afton aka "Dave Miller", into joining him in his actions before pulling out his organs in his sleep after realising Afton would possess his own corpse so he could be with Henry, curious just how far will he go. Just one of the countless other actions he committed would be framing Jack Kennedy for the murder of his sister Dee, before causing his "death" in a Fredbear suit, laughing and walking away when seeing him bleed out. In the third game's Downer Ending, Henry would influence Jack into murdering Dave, before making Jack's corpse a mindless vessel that would follow the voice in his head.

People recently said they have a problem with the Whitehall image or did I misread that?