During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I’m gonna say
to the Walrus. From the gameplay I watched (I watched a long Let’s Play a while back), he’s just a rambling idiot. It’s the Carpenter who is inferred to be the one behind the mass slaughter, the Walrus just being a side piece who rambles on the “shoes and ships and ceiling wax” speech and then is playing the part the Carpenter assigned to him, Death, in the play all while single-mindedly feeding his unquenchable appetite. Plus, the heinous standard of the Alice games is through the roof, with tons of characters performing acts of mass slighter and torture, the Walrus and the Carpenter’s not being enough to stand out among the other denizens of Wonderland, especially when Alice herself is a brutal anti-hero responsible for a lot of Wonderland deaths in her own right.
The Carpenter is the planner, but The Walrus is most certainly not just playing his part. As I mentioned before, he is a sexual deviant and the victims under the theater are sexually mutilated. The Carpenter also says he is appeasing The Walrus and hiding Wonderland from the beast. The Walrus, as horrid as he is, hasn't done this to the rest of Wonderland because of Thr Carpenter keeping him in check.
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That wasn't really the way I understood it, I was more under the impression that the Walrus was a big, dumb, violent idiot and the Carpenter planned to appease him to prevent him from moving to other parts of Wonderland, still with the implication that the Walrus was just a mindless eating-and-raping machine.
But, for the sake of argument, we'll go with your interpretation. I'll still give a slight
, mostly just because of the heinous standard. Mass murder and torture are extremely common in the Alice games, and it takes a character like Bumby, who threatens Wonderland as a whole AND the real world, to stand out.
If anyone wants to watch clips from the game, they're [1]
and [2]
. If the Walrus does go up it's not like I'd lose it, but it's just a difference in opinion and interpretation.
Edited by SumDumNerd on Jun 18th 2021 at 10:12:12 AM
Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation hereIn my eyes his initial ramblings are him being a Cloudcuckoolander, but his scene in the theater show clear intelligence with delusions of elegance.
If we do get a new image for the MCU page. We will need a new quote. Here are our options from the quotes page.:
I am not sure if any of them really work for a page for me. If I had to I would say Mysterio's probably works best. Though I admit I didn't check to see if we have any from the Tv show side of things.
Edited by Bullman on Jun 18th 2021 at 12:00:14 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadI don't know. Most of the time I see most tropers say that they don't want the same character to be both image and quote. I never said anything about protocol. I am just throwing options out there. I really don't care either way.
Edited by Bullman on Jun 18th 2021 at 12:06:45 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadSome folks do feel that the page image and quote shouldn't be of the same character—it's by no means a rule but Bull isn't actually shooting in the dark with assuming some people would prefer a quote change.
I'm fine either way...if we leave the quote, that's good. If we want a change, Mysterio's would have my vote. That or one by Kilgrave, he's got plenty solid ones.
'Yes' to Gordeau, abstaining on Walrus for now
Edited by Ravok on Jun 18th 2021 at 10:10:04 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!What if there's a story that actually has a larger plot, but one part of it is all about a character who does bad things? I'm asking because there's yet a baddie who only shows up in one issue of Spawn: The Dark Ages and pretty much the entire plot of that issue is just showcasing what a horrible bastard he is through flashbacks. I'd be less hesitant to propose him if he played a larger role in the main storyline, but since there IS an actual storyline at all beyond "bad person did bad things", I'm at least considering it.

Image pickin thread is now open
~Ravok