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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#266327: Jun 18th 2021 at 8:25:42 PM

[tup]Gordeau

Cautious [tup]to the Walrus

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#266328: Jun 18th 2021 at 8:26:30 PM

Also, provided his victims are sentient and not just, y'know, regular fish, "yes" to the Walrus.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#266329: Jun 18th 2021 at 8:29:44 PM

Sure to Walrus and Gord

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#266330: Jun 18th 2021 at 8:33:50 PM

[tup] Gordo and a tentative one to the Walrus

It's Spooky Month!
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#266331: Jun 18th 2021 at 8:45:27 PM

I can confirm that the fish the Walrus eats are indeed sapient, not to mention terrified out of their minds.

Leaning [tup] to The Walrus.

MinisterOfSinister From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye! from In the Hall of the Mountain King Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
#266333: Jun 18th 2021 at 8:45:59 PM

[tup] To Walrus and Gordeau. Does Lupin III have its own CM page?

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#266336: Jun 18th 2021 at 8:52:55 PM

I’m gonna say [tdown] to the Walrus. From the gameplay I watched (I watched a long Let’s Play a while back), he’s just a rambling idiot. It’s the Carpenter who is inferred to be the one behind the mass slaughter, the Walrus just being a side piece who rambles on the “shoes and ships and ceiling wax” speech and then is playing the part the Carpenter assigned to him, Death, in the play all while single-mindedly feeding his unquenchable appetite. Plus, the heinous standard of the Alice games is through the roof, with tons of characters performing acts of mass slighter and torture, the Walrus and the Carpenter’s not being enough to stand out among the other denizens of Wonderland, especially when Alice herself is a brutal anti-hero responsible for a lot of Wonderland deaths in her own right.

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
PaynefulAlice Since: May, 2021
#266337: Jun 18th 2021 at 9:02:49 PM

[up]The Carpenter is the planner, but The Walrus is most certainly not just playing his part. As I mentioned before, he is a sexual deviant and the victims under the theater are sexually mutilated. The Carpenter also says he is appeasing The Walrus and hiding Wonderland from the beast. The Walrus, as horrid as he is, hasn't done this to the rest of Wonderland because of Thr Carpenter keeping him in check.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#266338: Jun 18th 2021 at 9:06:00 PM

Yeah, I don't necessarily mind the Walrus being a raving brute if he's also a clear sadist. If he's more mentally cognizant than, say, Piggsy from Manhunt, I'm willing to see him go up.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#266339: Jun 18th 2021 at 9:07:17 PM

Yes to Gordeau, for the Walrus I'd like some verification about his mental faculties before I vote.

LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#266340: Jun 18th 2021 at 9:08:03 PM

[tup] Gordy and the Walrus

Second post incoming for Sailor Moon Eternal!

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#266341: Jun 18th 2021 at 9:09:04 PM

[up][up][up][up] That wasn't really the way I understood it, I was more under the impression that the Walrus was a big, dumb, violent idiot and the Carpenter planned to appease him to prevent him from moving to other parts of Wonderland, still with the implication that the Walrus was just a mindless eating-and-raping machine.

But, for the sake of argument, we'll go with your interpretation. I'll still give a slight [tdown], mostly just because of the heinous standard. Mass murder and torture are extremely common in the Alice games, and it takes a character like Bumby, who threatens Wonderland as a whole AND the real world, to stand out.

If anyone wants to watch clips from the game, they're [1] and [2]. If the Walrus does go up it's not like I'd lose it, but it's just a difference in opinion and interpretation.

Edited by SumDumNerd on Jun 18th 2021 at 10:12:12 AM

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
PaynefulAlice Since: May, 2021
#266342: Jun 18th 2021 at 9:16:10 PM

In my eyes his initial ramblings are him being a Cloudcuckoolander, but his scene in the theater show clear intelligence with delusions of elegance.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#266343: Jun 18th 2021 at 9:52:15 PM

If we do get a new image for the MCU page. We will need a new quote. Here are our options from the quotes page.:

"Ronan murdered my wife Hovat, and my daughter Kamaria. He slaughtered them where they stood, and he LAUGHED!"
Drax the Destroyer relates one of the many crimes of Ronan the Accuser, Guardians of the Galaxy

"I tried so hard to find the form that best suited you, and this is the thanks I get? You really need to GROW UP! I wanted to do this together, but I suppose you'll have to learn by spending the next thousand years as a BATTERY!"
Ego, to his son Peter Quill (after telling Peter how he killed the latter's mother), Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2

"More casualties, more coverage. I gotta cut through the static. London is a beautiful city and it'll suffer, but they can rebuild. I mean if I'm gonna be the next Iron Man, I need to save the world from an Avengers-level threat. But, when its new savior descends...all those casualties will be forgotten."

"You needn't have come so far, Asgardian! Death would have come to you soon enough! Your universe was never meant to be. Your world and your family will be extinguished!"
Malekith, Thor: The Dark World

"I'll get that sword, even if I have to kill every single one of them to do it!"

I am not sure if any of them really work for a page for me. If I had to I would say Mysterio's probably works best. Though I admit I didn't check to see if we have any from the Tv show side of things.

Edited by Bullman on Jun 18th 2021 at 12:00:14 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#266344: Jun 18th 2021 at 10:00:02 PM

Wait, why precisely would an image switch necessitate a quote switch, Bullman? That's not and never has been protocol.

Edited by Scraggle on Jun 18th 2021 at 11:00:16 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#266345: Jun 18th 2021 at 10:03:31 PM

I don't know. Most of the time I see most tropers say that they don't want the same character to be both image and quote. I never said anything about protocol. I am just throwing options out there. I really don't care either way.

Edited by Bullman on Jun 18th 2021 at 12:06:45 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#266346: Jun 18th 2021 at 10:06:44 PM

I think the Mysterio quote is the best out of them, and yeah that is the reason I think it should be changed.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#266347: Jun 18th 2021 at 10:07:48 PM

Some folks do feel that the page image and quote shouldn't be of the same character—it's by no means a rule but Bull isn't actually shooting in the dark with assuming some people would prefer a quote change.

I'm fine either way...if we leave the quote, that's good. If we want a change, Mysterio's would have my vote. That or one by Kilgrave, he's got plenty solid ones.

'Yes' to Gordeau, abstaining on Walrus for now

Edited by Ravok on Jun 18th 2021 at 10:10:04 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#266348: Jun 18th 2021 at 10:10:46 PM

Yeah, it is nice for the variety, I do like Mysterio's. That being said if we like the quote as is I'm agnostic on the matter overall.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#266349: Jun 18th 2021 at 10:20:01 PM

Here's my opinion; we have a perfectly good quote that was already voted on, we don't need to relitigate it. People not wanting the quote to be from the same source as a page image is nothing but annoying, arbitrary bias.

Edited by Scraggle on Jun 18th 2021 at 11:20:24 AM

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#266350: Jun 18th 2021 at 10:20:29 PM

What if there's a story that actually has a larger plot, but one part of it is all about a character who does bad things? I'm asking because there's yet a baddie who only shows up in one issue of Spawn: The Dark Ages and pretty much the entire plot of that issue is just showcasing what a horrible bastard he is through flashbacks. I'd be less hesitant to propose him if he played a larger role in the main storyline, but since there IS an actual storyline at all beyond "bad person did bad things", I'm at least considering it.


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