During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
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the analogy here would be the Tom Riddle Horcrux in Chamber of Secrets or the Brides that Spawned out of Manus in Dark Souls upon it's death.
Or more hypothetically, it's what if if the Dark Empire Palpatine or the TROS!Palpatine was a genuine Palpatine clone that behaved like Palpatine while the original stayed dead, rather than Palpatine in a new body.
Edited by xie323 on Jun 18th 2021 at 7:05:47 AM
Mr. Nuclear.
Also I just saw an announcement for Resident Evil Village DLC. No details sadly. Let's keep an eye on it at least to see if one of the Lords or someone from another shady organisation becomes a keeper.
Let me guess: no-one in the base game counts because Even Evil Has Loved Ones, Freudian Excuse, compromised morality and/or the Heinous Standard of the game/series wasn't exceeded?
I think it's only a bad link for mobile users, at least on my end—I had to switch to desktop mode to see it.
As for the pic itself, it's pretty good, higher quality/the Disney logo not being in the shot would help but, and I know this from experience, that's the highest definition you can get for this show and the logo is stuck there on any sites you watch the show on until Disney mans up and gives it a DVD or Blu-Ray release (do it, cowards!)
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Yes to the Warrior and the Schmidt pic. I did the last Vitiate rewrite and I'm with the expansion since apparently The Scrappy no one asked for just can't stay dead...
We could always do it this way for more clarity/context, quality is still rough but at the very least it's more obvious he's chowing down lmao
I will refrain from saying anything about her facial expressions during
Edited by Ravok on Jun 18th 2021 at 7:36:11 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Sorry about The Red King, he has even less character than Arthur. Oh well, on to the next one!
What is the Work?
Alice: Madness Returns is the second installment of the franchise. Alice has unfortunately had a Happy Ending Override and continues to struggle mentally. She relapses and falls into Wonderland again, though she wakes up occasionally, she inevitably ends up back in her world.
Who is The Walrus? What has he done?
The Arc Villain of "Deluded Depths" along with The Carpenter, the two are working on a play at the Dreary Lane Theater in the town of Barrelbottom. The Walrus is introduced lazing about on the stage, sleeping while Alice and Carpenter speak. Alice is sent to gather the script, band, and singers for the play.
He and The Carpenter destroy the bridge back to the theater after she completes these errands, so Alice has to find a new way to get inside. She eventually finds a way in using the basement...only to find the corpses of hundreds of fish The Walrus has butchered. Bodies piled up, female victims sexually mutilated, and The Mayor of Barrelbottom. The poor nautilus had been crucified on anchor, a hacksaw buried into his head, and left to hang over the bodies while alive and in pain.
During the play itself, it is revealed this was all an elaborate trap to feed the town to The Walrus. The doors are boarded shut, and The Walrus kills the leading star by crushing her under his enormous frame. After going on a nihilistic poem about how everyone dies and uses it as an excuse to start gorging himself on the townsfolk. As he is feasting, the Infernal Train drives through the theater, killing him and The Carpenter.
Mitigating Qualities?
Absolutely no redeeming qualities. As for personality, The Walrus is a nihilistic, lustful maniac who shows no care for anything but feasting and murder.
Heinous Standard?
While Bumby is a perverted monster who raped and murdered a girl, then pimped out children, The Walrus is more of a depraved prolific Serial Killer. He also has shorter screen time.
The Carpenter is a Well-Intentioned Extremist who was trying to hide the rest of Wonderland from The Walrus and takes no part in the killings.
Final Verdict?
This sicken beast gets a
from me.
Okay, time for my final (for now) Lupin III candidate. Thanks again to Nev to pointing this out to me and all that—here's Gordeau from the yearly special Island of Assassins.
Who is Gordeau? What has he done?
Gordeau is the head of Tarantula, an enigmatic cabal of dozens of professional assassins who sell their services around the world. We get a detailed montage of the sort of crimes Gordeau is responsible for ordering on a daily basis; important politicians assassinated, planes bombed, streets shot up and occupied buildings blown up. The dude's body count is through the roof.
Beyond that, Gordeau has no loyalty to anyone but himself. All the assassins in Tarantula are envenomed with a poison of Gordeau's creation which will kill them if they leave his island, unless they wear a special gas mask. Assassins who fail their job are subject to a particularly awful method of punishment: live game. When Lupin (and Fujiko) are enslaved by Gordeau, they get to see an assassin subject to this and killed as he's begging for mercy.
In his most impressive display of cunning, Gordeau arranges to kill off quite literally his entire organization so he can make off with the gold beneath the island. Teaming up with The Mole in Tarantula, Doc, Gordeau arranges for s huge shoot out between the assassins who want to escape the island and the ones still loyal to him, leading to dozens of deaths, before trying to have the entire island blown up to take care of the survivors. Gordeau finally tries to betray and kill Doc as well, but he's out of luck; Doc outwits the dude and shoots him in the head.
Any mitigating factors?
Zip. Doc is an impressively treacherous work himself—aside from setting up the demise of Tarantula for Gordeau, he betrayed Lupin in the far past—but he's not quite there compared to Gordeau. Gordeau has a hefty body count and one of the worst cases of Bad Boss-itis in the franchise; if the exceptionally awful way he kills failing mooks isn't enough, trying to kill off his entire organization—including everyone still loyal to him—seals his place here.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
So I've looked at the videos where the candidate shows just how nasty they were and looking at who we have as C Ms from Harry Potter....and I may be running into some issues, particularly with regards to heinousness. It could very well be a situation where we have a massive Hate Sink rather than a CM.
I still would like to go over this candiate with someone to see if their crimes are unique enough for the setting since that's the arguement that could be used. PM me if you are interested.

However, I'm kind of wary about putting Haman on the NA list just yet. Of my searches, I found this
and this
as the other times when Haman has been brought up. The former of which was technically the first serious discussion about Haman's qualifications, since the argument around him was pretty minimal around the time when the thread was discussing Bible villains
, so a discussion at that time was warranted. Otherwise, it appears that Haman was only brought up twice without any new information presented, which is generally minimal compared to other characters on the NA list, so I'm not sure if it's warranted to put Haman on the list as of now. If he's brought up one or two more times, then maybe.
Edited by DrUnknown on Jun 18th 2021 at 7:04:03 AM