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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#266276: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:11:38 PM

Having personally saw the image he was showing, I say [tup] to the Nos image.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#266277: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:11:50 PM

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/red_skull_cm_image.jpeg
Damn the text is very bad, looks like it will have to stay on the image links page.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jun 18th 2021 at 6:12:14 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#266278: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:17:29 PM

Yeah, I only heard about Zola's stuff with Erskine's family from the EP, since I've never read the tie-in comics. I did see the movies though.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#266279: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:18:33 PM

We could always use a textless version:

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/schmidtskull.jpg

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#266280: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:19:12 PM

[up] Still clear enough what is happening in that case I will start an Image Pickin thread to replace it.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#266281: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:21:28 PM

[up][up]So much better.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#266282: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:23:54 PM

I take a simple four day break and this thread grows dozens of times over. Love you guys and all your silly villains.

Yes to Zola, the Godhand, Yang, Darus, the Conan guy, Mad Monty, Chainsaw Angus, Claudius, Robespierre, the Carnifex, and the Wyald Nomnoms picture. A Berserk image NOT too gross to display on a "PG-13" site at last!

Has anyone reserved the Hulu horror flick False Positive yet? If not, may I snag it? I'd be totally uninterested if not for the fact that the villain is a creepy-ass fertility doctor played by Pierce Brosnan, and getting a CM for an actor that almost always plays heroes is always fun!

Edited by HamburgerTime on Jun 18th 2021 at 8:27:08 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#266284: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:31:43 PM

[up][up]All yours

Brosnan does have a cm role already btw. He was the watchmaker in Survivor (2015)

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#266285: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:35:34 PM

NVM.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Jun 18th 2021 at 8:35:48 AM

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#266286: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:37:32 PM

Very late votes:

[tup] Malekith

[tup] Dormammu

Late abstain on Zola and Crossbones. I can see the argument so I won't fully downvote...but I think Crossbones dosen't stand out as far as MCU villains go with zilch resources and as for Zola...I feel that Skull has him kinda outheinoused and his rant feels more like a generic fascist "the world is ours, we will completely purge the opposition, and there's nothing you can do about it" motive rant rather than trying to advocate for global Turner Diaries-esque or Burgundy nuke plot-esque genocide of racial undesirables. I also think we don't see enough of Zola's manipulation of global conflicts(with it being more described by him+footage of IRL conflicts and wars) for that to factor in too much.

Not helping matters is that HYDRA in MCU is generally portrayed as a group that was more power for power's sake in The First Avenger, and later Global Totalitarianism in Winter Soldier(or paving the way for the coming of HIVE depending on how you interpret AOS' canoncity) over Nazi esque racial purificationism(that aspect of their philosophy was rather downplayed)

[tup] God Hand

[tup] Keeping Haman

[tdown] Piccolo

[tdown] Dark Star

May have an candiate coming up from a Harry Potter related fanfic(well officially licensed fanfic mind you), through I am concerned about heinousness here so if anyone wants to discuss this with me, dm me.

Also going to have a brief rewrite to Vitiate if that's ok. So in one of the recent content updates we learn that upon his final death, a final, disparate vestige of his essence was released into the galaxy. It took hold of Satele Shan and her Jedi followers. Drawing off their memories and power, the imprint slowly reformed itself into a duplicate of Tenebrae and threatened to use Shan as his new host. Now the thing is more of a genuine clone of Vitiate rather than Vitiate himself IMHO but I think it's worth pointing out:

  • Lord Vitiate, born Tenebrae, rose from an illegitimate child of a Sith Lord to the Greater-Scope Villain of the entire franchise. Murdering his father to entrap his soul and take power, Vitiate went on to lure thousands of Sith Lords to his planet, where he forced them to participate in a ritual which empowered him while draining the world of life. As Emperor Valkorion, he brought about the devastating Mandalorian Wars and later caused another war which claimed countless more lives, using sleeper agents to weaken the Republic and trying to destroy entire star system in an attempt to enact a ritual which would allow him to devour all life in the galaxy. Possessing a hero to found yet another Empire on the planet Zakuul, Vitiate manipulated his own children from the possession, having one of his sons murder the other and using his daughter for cruel experimentation. With his "Eternal Empire", Vitiate bound his spirit to the hero the Outlander and initiated a new invasion to cause a galaxy-wide war and caused further chaos by having his now insane daughter take the throne of Zakuul, before allowing for her assassination and leaving the planet in turmoil without a leader. Even his Final Death was not enough to end his evil, for the destruction of his physical body unleashed the lingering traces of his essence, which sought to possess Satele Shan and her followers as its new hosts in one final bid to unleash further suffering on the galaxy.

Edited by xie323 on Jun 18th 2021 at 6:48:58 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#266287: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:40:30 PM

[up] If it's officially licenced that might mean it could go on the Harry Potter page.

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#266288: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:45:45 PM

It is....except there's no official Harry Potter page.

JRads47 Since: Nov, 2014
#266289: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:46:27 PM

A suggestion for the image proposal, how about make the speech bubbles the caption?

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#266290: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:47:14 PM

[up][up] Currently we have 7 keepers and are waiting on 1 to 2 more to get a page.

Side note I haven't been having any luck with the Video Games.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jun 18th 2021 at 6:52:13 AM

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#266291: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:50:03 PM

Ok, checked the YMMV page

Yeah I've been living under a rock. I genuinely thought that we only have Voldemort, Bellatrix, Umbridge and Greyback. What makes Pettigrew not qualify in the books by any chance?

This could potentially make a Harry Potter page.

[up] Yeah, for the HP games....they're reenactments of the movies mostly and I don't think Voldemort or any of the others do anything different. As for this game, the candidate in question comes from a rather notorious mobile game in the sense of pay-to-win, so not a lot of people would have seen them(especially with the timers being put on said game). I will likely have to rely on Youtube videos for this one.

Edited by xie323 on Jun 18th 2021 at 6:52:35 AM

NattesNovgrel from The Middle of Misery, South of Iowa Since: Apr, 2020
#266292: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:52:10 PM

Not quite sure what the image is for at the moment, but I like it.

Alright, I put off this effortpost for too long (mentioned back in February), so let us get to it.

What’s the Work?

Before Peter Steele started Type O Negative, there was Carnivore. A crossover thrash metal band from the 80s, Carnivore was a short-lived but awesome act that dealt with technology, religion, war, and especially nuclear Armageddon and its aftermath. Throughout all this, the band combines a sense of black comedy with grotesque, dark lyrics about human’s relationship with technology.

For this EP, we will be looking at their first official album, titled Carnivore.

Who is He?

From the song of the same name, the man only known as the Thermonuclear Warrior is a denizen of a post-apocalyptic Earth. Whether he was a survivor of the apocalypse or born after is never brought up, but what is known is that he despises mutation, and, seeing himself as a perfect specimen, takes it upon himself to ‘cure’ the world of this disease.

As you can tell, Mad Max this man is not.

What Does He Do?

The first half of the song mostly consists of him ranting about how humanity has become far more mutated after the nuclear holocaust, believing that this mutation will “strangulate” humanity’s future. As such, the narrator takes it upon himself to cleanse the world, making it his personal crusade.

The second half, however, is where we see his atrocities. Going about the wasteland, he seeks out anyone he considers tainting humanity, where he promptly namedrops “the dying, sick and deformed”, using a variety of methods such as “Stabbing and choking and burning and drowning.” Describing his victims with such colorful language as “human pollution” and “subhuman feces”, the Warrior claims that his divine crusade has led to the deaths of millions.

Throughout all this, the Warrior shows zero remorse for his massacres, even at one point proudly proclaiming that genocide is his way of life, and that it is the reason for his divine existence. When ‘asked’ how he has any right to judge who is a disgusting troglodyte worthy of being slaughtered, he justifies himself by pulling the ‘might makes right’ card, saying he doesn’t need anyone’s approval as he makes the rules, and saying he will smash anyone who gets in his way.

Links to the lyrics and song:

https://genius.com/Carnivore-thermonuclear-warrior-lyrics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WorK2PcRZ0s

Does He Have Any Redeeming Qualities?

Ultimately, I’m going to have to say no.

Despite his ravings of wanting to better humanity’s chances of survival, the song makes it clear that his crusade is entirely an ego trip fueled by bloodlust, what with believing it’s his divine right to massacre and the fact he puts his own nomination upon it. Combine that with his liberal usage of dehumanizing terms as he murders, proclaiming he is in charge, and his willingness to smash any “resistance”, makes it clear that this is less “I should stop this mutation thing before it gets worse” and more “I will kill anyone I consider imperfect who dares to live on the same planet as me.”

While the man is certainly deluded, I do not think it is anything disqualifying. There is nothing implying he is deficient in his mental faculties; he is just an egomaniac with delusions of grandeur.

Otherwise, no. He has no moments of caring about someone else or having any standards.

Is He Heinous by the Standards of the Story?

Now, as he is the only villain of the song and easily passes in that regard, I will instead talk about the rest of the album and discography.

As you can probably tell, the world Steele creates in his music is dark. Arguably even darker than something like Fallout, as there is no NCR, Brotherhood, or even Legion to keep peace, mostly just violent tribal mutants killing each other. This album alone contains songs about a chauvinist warrior who enslaves children and rapes women (Male Supremacy, the narrator of which doesn’t count because it’s more about the dualistic nature of aggression and passion in masculinity), God killing himself in disgust for the depravity of his creations, humans (God is Dead), and cannibals who hunt people in the post-apocalyptic subways (Predator, in which the lyrics are so grotesque [trust me on this one], the narrator could easily count if the song had any consistent POV). Their most famous song is even about a reincarnation of both Adolf Hitler and Jesus Christ (Jesus Hitler) having an existential crisis on whether he wants destruction or salvation for the Jews.

However, putting aside how their songs are probably not connected in any meaningful way except themes, I would still say the Warrior stands out. He is one single individual in the wastes, who cruelly hunts down any innocents he can find for the crime of being considered inferior to himself, of which he apparently has done so to millions. He isn’t a nebulous narrator describing humanity’s doom, he’s one guy doing it all on his own.

Any Other Issues?

My biggest concern was the fact this is a music example, which haven’t had the best of luck keeping, especially ones that aren’t concept albums. While I can’t say he is the absolute stronger keeper, I think he hits all the notes. He has a backstory (man in the post-apocalypse), a personality (a bigoted egomaniac with delusions of grandeur), and motivation (wants to kill all “inferiors”). Peter took the effort to make him more of a character than a lot of violent metal music.

The songs Carnivore makes almost always contain black humor, but nothing on the same level as the Dead Kennedys. They have some sense of seriousness to them. For lack of a better comparison, they’re as if the Coen Brothers decided to direct Damnation Alley, Hardware, or Wizards.

Final Verdict

Despite my reservations, I think the Thermonuclear Warrior is a yes.

Edited by NattesNovgrel on Jun 18th 2021 at 8:53:12 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#266293: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:53:14 PM

Bro I love a good recurring, Overarching Villain as much as the next guy, but can Tenebrae/Vitiate, like, stay dead please? Lmao this is like what, the 3rd or 4th time he's been "beaten for good" in the context of the game? And people said Dark Empire was rough for bringing Palpatine back once [lol]

Leaning 'Yes' to the Warrior

Edited by Ravok on Jun 18th 2021 at 6:56:54 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#266294: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:54:49 PM

At this point hell keep coming back till the MMO is done for good.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#266295: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:56:30 PM

Also the new writeup is exactly 250 words, though in his case it seems warranted.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#266296: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:56:39 PM

[up][up][up][up] Sounds like a yep.

"Now I'm radioactive; that can't be good!"

Edited by HamburgerTime on Jun 18th 2021 at 8:56:57 AM

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#266297: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:56:46 PM

[up][up]

Don't forget TROS for Palps. That said, Vitiate returning was actually excecuted well enough. It wasn't Vitiate coming back but a genuine clone made from a fragment of his consciousness rather than Vitiate using a clone body. And they're moving to milk Malgus as the next big archvillain anyways

Any objections with the rewrite.

Edited by xie323 on Jun 18th 2021 at 6:59:01 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#266298: Jun 18th 2021 at 6:58:23 PM

Vitiate really up here rivaling my man Teridax in "WAIT! HE ISN'T DEAD! BADDIE SURPRISE!" returns [lol][lol] I approve of the rewrite, xie!

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#266299: Jun 18th 2021 at 7:00:02 PM

[up] If it makes you feel any better from what I understand it isn't a real return, not even a Force Ghost, just sort of a "vestige" released as a Dead Man Switch ploy. And probably only happened because people wanted to see his original body. And here he is!

Edited by HamburgerTime on Jun 18th 2021 at 9:02:01 AM

PaynefulAlice Since: May, 2021

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