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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#266176: Jun 18th 2021 at 11:28:53 AM

Yes to Darus. Couple of questions:

  • Is he only in the first book?
  • I assume Raaku is the "psychotic emperor who leads blood sacrifices"?

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#266179: Jun 18th 2021 at 11:32:33 AM

By the way let's not forget the Matriarch's EP

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#266180: Jun 18th 2021 at 11:33:49 AM

BTW Lighty, you DID get lucky with King of Wolves (I'm assuming it's this one?). Assuming it's this...the CHEAPEST is $140+!

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#266181: Jun 18th 2021 at 11:37:27 AM

Matriarch seems a keeper, but I'd like more detail.

And yep, that's the one

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#266183: Jun 18th 2021 at 11:38:31 AM

[tup] to Darus

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#266184: Jun 18th 2021 at 11:42:53 AM

[tup] for Marion, Lowe, Claudius, Yang, Mewtwo, and the Matriarch.

Switching to [tdown] for Arthur.

Forgot to mention yesterday due to being tired, I'm not an anime/manga person, I just rarely get round to them, but the concept of the Godhand actually makes me want to check Berserk out.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#266185: Jun 18th 2021 at 11:50:28 AM

[tup] Mewtwo and Darus

Abstain on Matriatch pending more info

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#266186: Jun 18th 2021 at 11:50:55 AM

[tup] Mewtwo and Monsuta

Also here's my Trishul write-ups.

  • Trishul:
    • The Grandmaster is the leader of the Aidyan Conclave who seeks to bring India to its knees. Well known for sending suicide bombers to journalists and politicians who spread word of progress, the Grandmaster works for anarchist mastermind Chalikia to enact Pralaya, a man-made apocalypse that will dismantle the country’s democracy. Seeking to poison Indore’s water supply and kill thousands of those he deems weak, the Grandmaster sends one of his own to poison a village celebrating a religious holiday as a prelude to Pralaya, leading to over 120 deaths. Once Trishul get involved in his plans, the Grandmaster sends some gunmen out to commit mass shootings across Indore, leading to massive casualties in an attempt to distract Trishul from stopping his men from poisoning the city’s water supply. When Trishul invade his base, the Grandmaster leaves his followers to perish as he attempts to make an escape.
    • Jagdeep is a hired mercenary working with the Aidyan Conclave to ensure Pralaya will happen. In truth a greedy gunman who cares more about getting paid than the Conclave’s beliefs, Jagdeep is introduced kidnapping a doctor’s daughter in order to get important blueprints for the Conclave’s plan, gutting the doctor and ordering his daughter to be killed once he’s acquired them. Murdering any of the Conclave’s followers who attempt to reveal their scheme, Jagdeep allows his men to partake in the mass shootings across Indore, and leads the Conclave’s gunmen in their attempt to poison the city’s water supply. A sadist who is willing to kill thousands of people for the sake of a payday, Jagdeep proved himself far worse than his associate Ashuman.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Jun 18th 2021 at 11:54:25 AM

It's Spooky Month!
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#266188: Jun 18th 2021 at 12:02:41 PM

[tup]Darius and Matriarch

IPP Wick Check created.
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#266189: Jun 18th 2021 at 12:22:39 PM

Not saying that he should be cut but was Damien Thorn's relationship with his father ever brought up in discussions? From some research I have done on him he seems to have admiration or possibly care about him as he speaks about avenging his agony in Hell.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#266190: Jun 18th 2021 at 12:23:55 PM

Yes it was. Discussed fully. He never displays love for his father beyond fanaticism and a desire to hurt the Nazarene

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#266191: Jun 18th 2021 at 12:33:10 PM

@Powermaster 301: I haven't listened to the EP, does it have more info on her? If so, please supply. ETA: Oh, NVM, you meant "effort post", not "extended player".

Links to lyrics on or about the Matriarch from the albums:

  • "The Matriarch": she is introduced as a conquering tyrant
  • "Cleanse the Bloodlines": her Villain Song. The Matriarch captures the Immortal and commands him to kill her sons so she can drink their blood from their bodies and become immortal, promising to "free him from this earthly tie" afterwards. ETA: she also explains that she birthed them for this purpose to begin with.
  • "Earth and Ashes": the last son, who really doesn't deserve it, faces death with dignity
  • "Call Me Immortal": the Matriarch reveals she lied and will have the Immortal at her beck and call for eternity, the Immortal returns to his Mountain to sleep and await her pleasure
  • "Return to Me": the Matriarch discovers the Immortal's escape into space and demands he return, promising to pursue him forever
  • "Soulbound": the Immortal battles to escape his pursuers
  • "Faster than Light": the Immortal continues his flight, comes to realize he can't outrun her, and turns to face her
  • "The Wind that Shapes the Land": the Immortal battles and slays the Matriarch, but finds he's been mortally wounded himself

Edited by StarSword on Jun 18th 2021 at 4:07:58 AM

Trust me, I'm an engineer!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#266192: Jun 18th 2021 at 12:35:04 PM

I'm gonna say "no" to the Matriarch. Her character's entirely there for a concept album but she's not striking me as exceptionally awful in terms of deeds despite how much the lyrics are hyping her up (triple filicide is undermined somewhat when one of them is an abject asshat).

Edited by Scraggle on Jun 18th 2021 at 1:37:28 PM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#266193: Jun 18th 2021 at 12:38:51 PM

You mentioned that the Immortal does evil deeds under her duress besides killing her sons? What deeds exactly does the Immortal do? If done under her orders, those deeds can be attributed to her.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
PaynefulAlice Since: May, 2021
#266194: Jun 18th 2021 at 12:40:51 PM

I've subscribed to American Mc Gee's YT channel and getting hype over the build up to Alice Asylum. Which is why I have been asking (and changed my icon)

What is the Work?

American McGee's Alice is the first installment of the franchise. It deals with the process of Alice attempting to rebuild her mind after the loss of her home and family.

Who is The Red King? What has he done?

The Red King is the leader of the Red Chess Pieces, one half of the race that inhabit the Pale Realm, and a general in the Red Queen/Queen of Hearts' army. He is in charge of claiming the Pale Realm for the Queen, and is in war with the White Chess Pieces as a result. The Red King functions as the Arc Villain for the Pale Realm.

Intending on wiping out the white chess pieces, The Red King lays siege on the White Castle, killing dozens of white chess pieces and making off with the White Queen. Though Alice goes to rescue The White Queen, she is too late and can only watch as the Red King personally drops the guillotine to behead her. Since the Pale Realm works off of the rules of chess, with the White Queen dead, he and his forces can easily extinguish the White Chess pieces. Fortunately, Alice battles and kills him, then uses a pawn she was given by the White King to resurrect the White Queen so they can continue the battle.

Mitigating Qualities?

None. He's a genocidal tyrant and nothing more.

Heinous Standard?

Wonderland is an absolute Crapsack World, with the Queen waging war and Hatter wanting to turn everyone into robots. However, neither have the explicit desire of genocide.

Final Verdict?

[tup] from me.

Edited by PaynefulAlice on Jun 18th 2021 at 4:18:21 AM

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#266195: Jun 18th 2021 at 12:48:53 PM

It's possibly a quadruple filicide actually, on further review I'm not entirely certain if the Immortal's targets in "False Walls" and "Ten Thousand Against One" are meant to be the same person. And "Cleanse the Bloodlines" also states she birthed them with the intent of sacrifice to begin with.

He's also forced to slaughter the second (or, as above, maybe second and third) son's Slave Mooks in order to get to them: "Ten Thousand Against One" basically consists of him begging that son's army to stand aside to no avail.

Also, I found a plot synopsis of Abyss from Brittney Slayes: "Our protagonist, The Immortal, is once again awakened at the beginning of our story, but this time he is in an unknown place: a ship out in deep space. He wanders alone for a time, reflecting on his misdeeds, searching for his new master. Finally, he finds him, and learns that it is the Grandson of The Matriarch, our antagonist. The Immortal had taken The Grandson’s father away some sixty years before, to be sacrificed by The Matriarch in a ritual to achieve immortality (the events from Apex) and now the Grandson seeks revenge against The Matriarch with the aid of her own weapon, The Immortal."

Edited by StarSword on Jun 18th 2021 at 3:51:01 PM

Trust me, I'm an engineer!
Paireon I wear no mask. from Wherever you go there you are Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I wear no mask.
#266196: Jun 18th 2021 at 12:50:51 PM

@VengefulBale - That's what the German dub did? Lawls. And yeah, I've read some crazy shit in the MLP section of the trope.

Don't know enough about the Wonderland situation to judge, will defer to others' judgement.

@VeryVileVillian I'd say the Peralta pic on account of being more compact and succinct. Gotta admit the comic being oblique with its CMs doesn't help your task; kudos for doing it anyway. EDIT: Your edit of the Calvin pics looks good too.

Good NA entry for Haman.

@WatTambor: LOLwut. That's some crazy requirements. And amusingly enough still not as good as here by a long shot. I almost want to try and contribute there if only to correct the atrocious prose. (Yes, I am a grammar Nazi, why do you ask?)

[tup] Darus. One of the most obvious implementations of Good Powers, Bad People, but also one of the most terrifying; a torturer/sadist that heals will never not be chilling due to the cognitive dissonance.

@therealjackieboy: Trishul writeups look good.

Edited by Paireon on Jun 18th 2021 at 3:52:08 PM

I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me.
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#266197: Jun 18th 2021 at 1:04:15 PM

One of the sons has an army of Slave Mooks and sends them off to die? Sounds like he’s worth an EP as well.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#266198: Jun 18th 2021 at 1:08:53 PM

[tup] Red King

Seems everything else I missed has enough votes, but lemme know if my input is needed.

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#266199: Jun 18th 2021 at 1:10:29 PM

[up][up]Compared to the Matriarch herself, I don't think he meets the heinousness standard for the work.

Edited by StarSword on Jun 18th 2021 at 4:10:38 AM

Trust me, I'm an engineer!

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