During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@RK 93: Haman is intended to be monstrous: he's a bigoted narcissistic asshole who tries to orchestrate a genocide for no other reason than because he hates Jews.
Torah/Old Testament God is intended to be benevolent but doesn't come across as such anymore because of Values Dissonance. (FWIW, I'm a Christian.)
Trust me, I'm an engineer!Thoughts on this quote?
Edited by Connor2107 on Jun 19th 2021 at 1:37:46 AM
Yes to Lowe, Claudius, Yang, and Mewtwo.
Abstain on the Matriarch.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread@Star Sword I was more referring to her deeds, she sounds bad but personally, I'm not sure if she's bad enough, she forces the main character to kill her sons and tries to kill the main character and that's about it, which I'm not sure if that's bad enough on itself even if its her own sons.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Jun 18th 2021 at 1:06:28 PM
Mewtwo. The number of fanmade stuff that's enormously Darker and Edgier than the relatively lighthearted source material will never not be funny to me.
Neutral on the Matriarch - I'd really like more info, if available; bit barebones right now, it is.
Yeah, keep Haman, no real need to discuss it IMO, especially since he was discussed many times before (I think I maybe took part in one, once?)
Also, LOL Villains Wiki. Last I checked their "Pure Evil" section was in dire need of curation. It's a useful ressource at times, but they really need to tighten their standards - soooo many entries' poor writing (spelling, grammar, and ESPECIALLY syntax) make my eyes bleed...
Edited by Paireon on Jun 18th 2021 at 1:15:50 PM
I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me.I asked this
a bit ago and was wondering if someone could give a more concrete answer. Are Wonderland's residents considered real enough? At the end of Madness Returns (and in undoubtedly confirmed in Otherlands) that Wonderland is part of Otherland, a plane of existence where imagination and reality blend together. Alice can move freely between these planes, which begin with her "Wonderland", and now she can enter the Wonderlands of others.
to Mew2King-er Mewtwo
@Paireon: That's what a dub making Mewtwo a megalomaniac villain instead of the tragic misunderstood anti-villain he originally was does. Also look at MLP for funnier stuff.
Edited by VengefulBale on Jun 18th 2021 at 12:27:37 PM
Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, nglNot sure on the Wonderland stuff just cause that's mirkier than I myself tend to get right, but personally I'd think yes in that scenario
And if he's been discussed a lot before, still keeps, and comes up enough, how about this?
Definitely a CM
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Not sure. The most evil characters in Wonderland there are (in some way) manifestations of people, Alice knows and met in the real world, while other villains showed redeeming qualities either way. Even the Red Queen showed herself as way less evil than Dollmaker, who is basically Wonderland version of Dr. Bumby.
Keep Haman
So, instead to prevent it from being buried again, since the quote was picked, i'm gonna repost another part of my previous post:
For XIII Monster page, how about any of these images from the comics:
Calvin Wax killing his partners in XIII Mystery spin-off comic:
1)

2)

3)

4)

Colonel Juan Peralta killing an innocent man to present him as a terrorist, who he sold to US:

That's the best i could find, since villains mostly love to do evil deeds through their henchmen or their actions are obscured by some object or person.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jun 18th 2021 at 8:31:21 PM

@Powermaster 201: The two albums together are only twenty songs long and she's only there in person for about five of them, but the Immortal's quest to escape her takes up the entire story (barring an extended Now What? ending in the last two songs).
Edited by StarSword on Jun 18th 2021 at 12:27:28 PM
Trust me, I'm an engineer!