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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#265976: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:07:31 PM

That's better. Sorry if that request felt a bit nitpicky but I couldn't fit the previous pic on my screen without turning off sticky header.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#265977: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:11:40 PM

Here's it combined, with the caption:

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/wyald.jpg
"​Enjoyment and Excitement!"

Edited by ACW on Jun 17th 2021 at 3:12:32 PM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#265978: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:23:06 PM

I cut down Dream's entry it's now at 182 words I think that should be fine.

Mimic45 Since: Feb, 2017
#265979: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:26:26 PM

[tup] to the Godhand.

Speaking of Berserk, just out of curiosity, why doesn't the Snake Baron count? IIRC, in terms of crimes he was not that different from Wyald.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#265980: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:28:34 PM

[up][up]182's good.

[up]Not knowing the work TOO well, I'd guess Wyald's probably worse?

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#265981: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:30:18 PM

What does he do again? Kill a priest and burn a town or something? Don't a lot of apostles do that? I only know some things about the series.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#265982: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:30:56 PM

The SB only had one town as bodycount. Said town Guts also willingly sacrificed to track SB.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#265983: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:32:35 PM

Yeah Wyald has a much bigger bodycount that makes him stand out from other Apostles which the Baron lacks.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#265984: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:33:35 PM

The Snake Baron is utterly generic for that world given his status as an Apostle with command over a small force. He's gotten an official effort post before, even just accounting for the 90s anime adaptation and has been ruled to fall short of the work's heinous standard.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#265985: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:35:06 PM

Criminal Minds Syndrome again.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#265986: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:36:14 PM

The Snake Baron's crimes? having women and kids sent to him to eat and destroying a town. The Count alone blows that out of the water. Wyald leads a military unit infamous for wiping out towns on the regular and attacked even their own size coupled with serial rape.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#265987: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:39:11 PM

Image and caption work well.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#265988: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:39:44 PM

I also like the image as well.

Paireon I wear no mask. from Wherever you go there you are Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I wear no mask.
#265989: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:40:12 PM

Good Wyald pic & caption.

Second Snake Baron not making the cut, which in itself says a lot about how shitty the world of Berserk is.

I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#265990: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:40:51 PM

Yeah, even beyond the baseline we get the aforementioned Count and Mozgus who do breach it and jack it up further while having irrefutable redeeming qualities.

Not to dissuade conversation but just so there's a handy reference spot are we fine with an NA listing for the Snake Baron? He looks like one until the work is scrutinized and he does get asked about quite frequently. I think just having the reasoning listed out somewhere would help make the whole thing more transparent.

Edited by 43110 on Jun 17th 2021 at 3:43:30 PM

Paireon I wear no mask. from Wherever you go there you are Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I wear no mask.
#265991: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:56:27 PM

I remember contesting Mozgus' redeeming qualities back in the day but was handily outvoted IIRC. Not gonna bring up another vote though; I doubt peeps' opinion has changed much and we have so much work to do already.

An NA listing sounds like a good idea, especially since he's the first dude newbies just getting into the manga encounter, and while Japanese fantasy media has become Darker and Edgier as a whole (probably in part due to Berserk LOL) he's still pretty hardcore by most standards.

I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#265992: Jun 17th 2021 at 1:00:50 PM

Might not be a bad idea to put Mozgus there as well.

Count probably not, since according to his character page his love for his daughter is pretty obvious.

Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#265993: Jun 17th 2021 at 1:00:57 PM

A very happy [tup] to the Godhand and to Robspierre.

I'll throw in a [tup] to Rumlow too.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#265994: Jun 17th 2021 at 1:02:08 PM

[tup] Raisa and Nergal - also Nergal has Sith Lightning.

Oh.

And [tup] the most vile of all Berserk's villains:

CONRAD

oh and the rest of the Godhand I guess

OK, jokes aside, yes to the four of them.

Pemulis_128 A 20th Century Boy from Teleporting behind you Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
A 20th Century Boy
#265995: Jun 17th 2021 at 1:03:44 PM

[tup] to the Godhand and the image of Wyald eating people

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#265996: Jun 17th 2021 at 1:05:21 PM

Shit, I guess the Godhand are Karma Houdini too.

As for Griffith...I'm declaring this canon.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#265997: Jun 17th 2021 at 1:06:33 PM

Griffith is still on the Never Again List I just noticed also Hot Coldman is from Metal Gear I wasn't aware the guy was that much of a problem.

Pemulis_128 A 20th Century Boy from Teleporting behind you Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
A 20th Century Boy
#265998: Jun 17th 2021 at 1:09:27 PM

I assume there was some kind of heated dispute over Hot Coldman in the past that put him there. Griffith is pretty obvious due to being an infamous case of Draco in Leather Pants.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#265999: Jun 17th 2021 at 1:11:47 PM

[up] You have no idea Griffith has so many rapid defenders.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#266000: Jun 17th 2021 at 1:12:19 PM

I caution everyone we don't know if Berserk will be continued or not yet. The publishers have said they'll make announcements on what's happening "later."

Miura's death is still very fresh.

[up] It's like Light. Defend the fanfiction and not the actual character because the actual Griffith is fucking indefensible on every level.

Edited by Lightysnake on Jun 17th 2021 at 1:13:16 AM


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