During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yeah, even beyond the baseline we get the aforementioned Count and Mozgus who do breach it and jack it up further while having irrefutable redeeming qualities.
Not to dissuade conversation but just so there's a handy reference spot are we fine with an NA listing for the Snake Baron? He looks like one until the work is scrutinized and he does get asked about quite frequently. I think just having the reasoning listed out somewhere would help make the whole thing more transparent.
Edited by 43110 on Jun 17th 2021 at 3:43:30 PM
I remember contesting Mozgus' redeeming qualities back in the day but was handily outvoted IIRC. Not gonna bring up another vote though; I doubt peeps' opinion has changed much and we have so much work to do already.
An NA listing sounds like a good idea, especially since he's the first dude newbies just getting into the manga encounter, and while Japanese fantasy media has become Darker and Edgier as a whole (probably in part due to Berserk LOL) he's still pretty hardcore by most standards.
I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me.I assume there was some kind of heated dispute over Hot Coldman in the past that put him there. Griffith is pretty obvious due to being an infamous case of Draco in Leather Pants.
I caution everyone we don't know if Berserk will be continued or not yet. The publishers have said they'll make announcements on what's happening "later."
Miura's death is still very fresh.
It's like Light. Defend the fanfiction and not the actual character because the actual Griffith is fucking indefensible on every level.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jun 17th 2021 at 1:13:16 AM


That's better. Sorry if that request felt a bit nitpicky but I couldn't fit the previous pic on my screen without turning off sticky header.