During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
BTW, it's now been a few days and Glory's inclusion seems to be unanimous, so I've got her writeup now:
- Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Season 5: Glorificus, aka Glory, is a narcissistic hell goddess who seeks to return home no matter how many lives must be destroyed in the process. After being exiled from her home dimension by her former partners, Glory began seeking the Key, the mystical energy that would allow her to return home. After killing the monks that hid the Key from her, Glory begins searching for it on Earth. Along the way, she keeps herself sane by feeding off of other people's sanity, driving dozens of people into an insane yet self-aware state. Upon discovering that Buffy is protecting the Key, Glory threatens to kill all of her friends and family while she can only watch unless she hands it over. When she later learns the Key is human, she begins making good on that promise, first by torturing Spike for the Key's identity, then later driving Tara insane in front of Willow. After slaughtering the Knights of Byzantium and capturing Dawn, Glory reveals that she's aware that opening the portal to her home will destroy the Earth, but that she doesn't care, even gloating that Buffy may have to kill her own sister to save the world. Caring for nothing in the universe except for herself and viewing guilt as beneath her, Glory's childish behavior only further showcases her monstrous sadism and depravity.
So with sgamer's permission, here's the revised Red Panda entries:
- Professor Friedrich Von Schlitz is a Nazi Mad Scientist and the face of the Third Reich on the podcast. Even before his formal introduction as a villain he's suspected, and later confirmed, to have engineered a terrorist attack on an American made zeppelin, having it hijacked and set to crash into Toronto as revenge against the theft of an invention of his when he'd been in the city, even excusing it as "an act of justified retribution for an insult against all of Germany." He takes glee in being able to avenge any slight, no matter how minor or major, yet he's also cowardly enough that the moment he's cornered or it's otherwise in his interest to do so, he'll switch sides of plead for mercy. All his declarations of loyalty to the Fuhrer and the Reich go out the window when he's captured by the Allies, both to save his neck and because Hitler had already started to tire of him.
- Antonia Zombanistro, also known as Professor Zombie, commits her crimes by zombifying people to use as her muscle through Necronium 234, a compound of her own creation. She hits her stride when she launches a campaign of vengeance against the Red Panda, blaming him for her becoming zombified by her Necronium and seeking to kill and zombify all of the city of Toronto, invoking the very apocalypse she once helped prevent. She makes multiple attempts to hit as large a group as possible; converting her Necronium into a street drug, trying to gas a huge crowd of parade watchers, or introducing Necronium into the water supply. Once the Red Panda figured out how to reverse the zombification and thwarts her plans, Zombie rejects the Panda's efforts to save her, destroying a critical part of the cure and forcing the Red Panda to destroy her for good, as she's determined to succeed and she makes clear she only has to win once for him to lose everything.
I also have permission from Lighty to do Raisa's writeup and since I believe we have done all of the Lords of Shadow candidates (though Lighty says there might be one more potential keeper that he's currently checking up on) here are the entries:
- Reverie & Resurrection DLC: The Forgotten One is a tremendously powerful demon summoned by the Bernhard family that brought about untold destruction upon the world before it was sealed in its home dimension by the founders of the Brotherhood of Light. Many centuries later, the Forgotten One would attempt to return to Earth once again to enact vengeance by purging it of all life, and only deciding to spare Gabriel so that he can look upon his failure.
- Raisa Volkova is an Acolyte of Satan who inherits her father's penchant for cruelty. The head of the Bioquimek Corporation which aims to pave the way for Satan's return by performing amoral experiments on kidnapped innocents with the intention of creating a toxin that will mutate any human who comes in contact with it into a demonic soldier for Hell's army. When Dracula infiltrates Bioquimek, Raisa releases the toxin, which infects her own scientists, and later spreads across the city causing mass chaos and death. Captured by Dracula and Zobek, Raisa unleashes her true form to kill them both, gloating that her father will return and bring unending agony upon the world.
- Nergal Meslamstea is a child of Satan who, just like his sister, aims to bring his father to Earth to "free" the world from good. The head of a weapons manufacturer, Nergal supplies weapons that each contain a piece of his corrupting essence that influences the city's police into a homicidal frenzy, shooting anyone on sight regardless of whether or not they're infected. After impaling Dracula's last surviving descendent Victor Belmont, Nergal sadistically electrocutes Dracula with the intent on sending him to his father in Hell.
How does Raisa's writeup look Lighty?
Edited by TiMBer1566 on Jun 16th 2021 at 10:17:17 AM
'Yes' to Raisa, Nergal, Schlitz and Zombie
For all curious, here's the Zola tally. If I missed anyone just let me know!
- Yes: (28)—Ravok, PurpleEyedGuma, 43110, ACW, Powermaster201, LargoQuagmire, Amanofmanyinterests, SumDumNerd, Bullman, therealjackieboy, AustinDR, ASghhrv6ub, Silverblade2, VengefulBale, futuremoviewriter, Snoketrope, MGD107, CloisterTheStupid, Paireon, DemonDuckOfDoom, YobabyColin, nwotyzal, TheMadCr0w, G-Editor, PaynfulAlice, PolarPhantom, DrUnknown, STARCRUSHER99
- Abstain/Thinking on it: (4)—SkyCat32, Ordeaux26, GeorgieEnkoom, TIMBER1566
- No: (5)—Lightysnake, ANewMan, libraryseraph, Mimic45, papyru30
If anyone flips or has any other concerns, glad to hear them, but as is, I think you'll be good for the write-up, DemonDuckOfDoom!
Edited to adjust STAR's vote change below.
Edited by Ravok on Jun 16th 2021 at 10:28:22 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Oh, wait that was a miscount we actually have 8 (The 5 from Lords of Shadow, Belmon Legacy Dracula, Netflix Death and Magnus from Nocturne of Recollection) keepers from the franchise, eh not sure on if a page would be needed especially since we already have 3 new pages currently pending to be locked or moved, though if we end up getting a 9th one would will certainly be made.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jun 16th 2021 at 10:16:24 AM
Looks good to me ~Ti M Ber 1566. Feel free to replace the write-ups I did in the sandbox with those. I'll leave it to you since your post has the formatting (and I'm actually heading to bed right now)
Just caught up on the Zola discussion. I am very torn.
His motives really do seem to mirror Pierce to a t, only with Pierce having more sympathy backing him. As for Zola's motive rant, idk he does seem to have himself convinced that the world will be better off, even if it is Nazi philosophy. Like this stands out from other instances of Nazism which basically amount to "these people inferior and don't deserve to live". There's also the fact that Zola keeps talking about a better world, not a better world for him, which is strengthened by the fact that he won't even be alive to enjoy said world. Aside from the WWII era stuff, Pierce is also enjoying all the fruits of Zola's labor without question including using a tortured soul like Bucky as a brainwashed slave.
Then going into the stuff he did in First Avenger, Schmidt pretty much out-heinouses him left and right. While he does have a tonne of horrid things that Zola does, it's very hard to isolate how much of it was his own doing and how much was under orders from Schmidt. Cowardice or not, it doesn't seem like he would have gone as far as he did if Schmidt wasn't there to pressure him.
Having said that, he does do plenty of bad things that is not directly related to Insight like human experimentation and a good share of Kick the Dog.
Like if we had passed Pierce as a CM I'd be more comfortable with voting Zola up, but as it stands, idk this is a very hard one.
I think I'll have to go with an abstain, leaning no.
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He already got approve so we don’t need a new tally if it these are only Yes or Abstain votes. It only would make a difference if all or most of them were No votes.
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If each of them has at least one unique crime not shared by the rest of the group and said crime doesn’t make him more heinous than the other group members, I think it shouldn’t be an issue.
for Nergal
Also a
for Zola. His direct involvement in Project Hindsight with the creation of the Algorithm that decides who lives and dies makes him stand out to me.
Edited by NTG on Jun 17th 2021 at 12:25:20 PM
Quick candidate this morning. Lighty relitigated the Corinthian from The Sandman. I got another we may have missed from issue #29 ("Thermidor"); Maximilien Robespierre himself.
Who is Robespierre? What has he done?
Ruler of France during the Reign of Terror—and Gaiman does not spare on the agony the Reign entailed. Robespierre claims to be making France anew even if he has to first kill every "child, woman and man" in the country first. Any dissent to the reign means torture and the guillotine, drowning the nation in blood within short time.
Robespierre's interests in the issue revolve Johanna Constantine (brother of John from Hellblazer) and the living head of Orpheus she possesses. When he captures her Johanna gets to witness a "puppet show" Robespierre is conducting with the literal headless bodies of his victims on giant marionette strings, threatening Johanna that if she doesn't cooperate that there are far worse things that could happen to her than becoming a puppet—"many of which do not involve dying first."
Robespierre gets Johanna looking in the gigantic pile of dozens of severed heads he's collected from political rivals until Johanna "finds" Orpheus—and has him have all the severed heads sing, rattling the fuck out of Robespierre.
Any mitigating factors?
No. Robespierre is not portrayed flatteringly at all. IDK if shit like the human puppet shows were Gaiman's flourishes—shit could get so depraved with European nobility it's better not to presume—but digressing, everything is onscreen and Robespierre is, easily, heinous enough.
Conclusions?
Keep.

Would you be okay if I check the entries and cut the fat?
Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 16th 2021 at 9:31:41 AM