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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#265776: Jun 16th 2021 at 7:55:45 PM

This has been on my mind for a while but was there a reason the Crimson King doesn't count? I tried to look for the answer and the closest I got was he was too much of an Orcus on His Throne but I also remember a few different reasons too. I was asking because back then I thought he would count due to the fact he's an Ax-Crazy Omnicidal Maniac from what I research, I only read the first book of the Dark Tower however so I'm not all caught up in the whole series.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#265777: Jun 16th 2021 at 7:57:20 PM

Like ozwell. It's his minions who basically do everything.

Its not even just following ijg orders since their gleeful assholes too.

Plus he's just depicted as an insane old man when we finally neetneet him.

Edited by miraculous on Jun 16th 2021 at 7:58:15 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#265778: Jun 16th 2021 at 7:58:09 PM

Yes to Raisa. Now time for her brother.

Who is Nergal Meslamstea? What does he do?

Nergal Meslamstae is the second of Satan's Acolytes, the half-human offspring of Satan, which really begs the question of just how Satan fathered them, when he did, and whether or not it was consensual... Disturbing Fridge Horror aside, Nergal just like his siblings intends on summoning his father to world to bring about Hell on Earth, and to do this, they must cause a lot of chaos and destruction before the Devil can be summoned. Nergal is the head of the world's largest weapons manufacturer and has used the company to promote violence and warfare among humanity.

When Raisa's demonic virus spreads across the city, Nergal's weapons supplied to the city's police, which each contain a fraction of his corrupting influence, drive the police into a homicidal frenzy, causing them to gun down anyone on sight, regardless of whether or not they've been mutated by the virus.

Dracula's distant descendant, Victor Belmont helps his ancestor to track Nergal down. Victor yells out a prayer to draw him out and Nergal comes and possesses a sword-wielding statue which he uses to impale Victor, killing him. Dracula follows Nergal to his office and the Acolyte proceeds to electrocute him. Dracula has to crawl away from him while Nergal slowly follows him, continuously electrocuting him while mocking him. Should Nergal catch up to him, he will open a portal to Hell to send Dracula to his father. Dracula manages to lure Nergal to his castle where his stronger and manages to kill the Acolyte by squashing his head underneath his boot.

Mitigating Factors

Nada. Nergal makes no secret about what kind of vile bastard he is and even revels in it. Just like with Raisa, he never expresses any genuine love for Satan, but rather sees him as the one who will subjugate humanity and bring about the end of the existence of good forever. He even outright prays to his father to "free" the world of good.

Heinousness

While he's not as bad as his sister, Nergal is certainly quite a piece of work himself. The cities police being turn into trigger happy sociopaths is explicitly stated to be his doing, and no one in the Lords of Shadow series save for Satan matches Nergal in sheer wanton sadism. Almost every single battle quote Nergal says just reeks of sadism, and how much he will enjoy seeing Dracula tortured.

Final Verdict

I'd say he keeps comfortably enough.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#265779: Jun 16th 2021 at 8:10:16 PM

Sure to Nergal

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#265780: Jun 16th 2021 at 8:13:11 PM

The issue is threefold with the Crimson King: He's never seen or shown doing anything. It's the pinnacle of Orcus on His Throne. His minions do all the work without too much input from him and he's just a crazy old guy when met.

Yea to Nergal

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#265781: Jun 16th 2021 at 8:16:41 PM

Since Von Schlitz sounds like he's in, I'll work on an entry and get it added to the Sandbox (That's the procedure, right?). In the meantime here's the 2nd one I promised. There's probably other Red Panda villains who could qualify, but I figure most are too minor, screentime wise, to make it. So I'm sticking to two major players in the Rogues Gallery.

What is the Work

Borrowing from Von Schlitz's effortpost: Red Panda Adventures, a podcast taking place in Toronto, Canada during the Great Depression and World War II that pays homage to radio-era superheroes such as The Spirit, The Shadow, and The Green Hornet. To use the show's own opening monologue:

And now Decoder Ring Theatre presents the continuing adventures of Canada's greatest superhero! That scourge of the underworld! Hunter of those who prey upon the innocent! That marvelous masked mystery man known only as... the Red Panda!

The Red Panda, mysterious crusader for justice, hides his true identity as one of the city's wealthiest men in his never-ending battle against crime and corruption. Only his trusty driver, Kit Baxter, who joins him in his quest in the guise of the Flying Squirrel, knows who wears the mask of the Red Panda!

    Who is the Candidate and What have they Done? 
I shall allow our candidate to speak for herself:

"Allow me to introduce myself. I am Antonia Zombanistro, Mistress of Forbidden Knowledge, Keeper of the Ancient Relics, Practitioner of the Lost Art of Necromancy. But you may know me by another name: Professor Zombie! (she laughs, the crowd panics) Quiet, all of you! Obey my orders and you have nothing at all to fear. Continue to defy me, and you will have a dark eternity to contemplate the majesty of my vengeance! Remain in your seats! My men have already taken the precaution of sealing all of the exits. There is only one way out of this building, and it is to co-operate with me fully." — Professor Zombie, episode 2

Professor Zombie, real name Antonia Zombanistro, is a mad scientist supervillainess that combines chemistry with necromancy. Her gimmick, as her name suggests, is the use of zombie minions. However, she has no taste for a Zombie Apocalypse, and has even aided the heroes in combating one. She goes for old-school zombies, corpses reanimated to do her bidding and act as her muscle when she commits her crime sprees. She was originally intended as a one-shot supervillain, but the absolutely hamtastic performance of voice actress Andrea Lyons guaranteed her a permanent place in the Red Panda's Rogues Gallery.

She creates her zombies through use of Necronium 234, a concoction of Professor Zombie's own design that combines modern science with voodoo wisdom. Those who breathe it in conjunction with a gas that acts as a delivery agent see themselves drained of life but left with their capabilities otherwise intact and obedient to Antonia. When not commiting actual crime sprees with her minions, she uses them to round up hostages and demand random lest they be added to her undead army.

Prior to the Flying Squirrel becoming the Red Panda's sidekick, hero and villain had a Dating Catwoman vibe, with the Red Panda simultaneously complementing her outfits while rebuking her utter contempt for human life. That quickly fades since the Squirrel is the Red Panda's driver, sidekick, later partner and even later wife and her appearances focus primarily on her villainy.

For much of her career and time on the show her crimes are Pragmatic Villainy. She steals money and material for her research and (initially) sees little value in the traditional Zombie Apocalypse. She gets involved in a supervillain team-up, the Red Panda Revenge Squad, that sets out to kill the Red Panda and, in another universe, successfully killed the Flying Squirrel note 

Her most heinous acts occur in the podcast's ninth season. The otherwise Large Ham adopts the tactics of organized crime taught to her by her cellmate in prison, another villain known as the Golden Claw, and uses them to become the new top crime boss... after zombifying all the old bosses. That is only the beginning however, as her grand plan is no less than a campaign of majestic vengeance upon the Red Panda by raining massive death upon Toronto. She creates a variant of her Necronium, Frost, and peddles it as the next big street drug. Those who take it become strong, then become addicted, then become dead, then become immobile unless they continually feed that addiction. Frost allows her to create zombies with higher brain functions, all beholden to her unless they really want to die.

She makes multiple attempts to hit as many people with Necronium/Frost at once as she can. When one such attempt involves hitting a crowd watching a parade akin to Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade, she takes active glee in it. Not just because of all the victims it will create, but because the Red Panda's efforts to inoculate the city against her drugs were focused primarily children first, which means they won't zombify, but their parents will. That plan is thwarted, but her final plan is to try and add Necronium to the city's water supply. She moves fast and hard enough that the Red Panda has to pull out every stop he can to keep her plan from succeeding.

The final confrontation between the Red Panda and Professor Zombie is essentially a Suicide by Cop, as Zombie forces the Red Panda to kill her when he had been attempting to avoid that.

    Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse? 
Potentially. Her most heinous acts actually have the strongest mitigations to them. In season 9, the Red Panda attempts to discover just why Professor Zombie has gone from largely pragmatic villainy to actively trying to invoke the very kind of Zombie Apocalypse she once helped prevent. In so doing they discover that she was among the supervillains held captive by a rogue government agency called the Chimera Protocol. The Chimeras forced her to improve and refine her Necronium formula then, at some point, made her breathe in her own concoction and, while she had made sure to immunize herself against it before, she couldn't against this version. The Chimera group used a device they had available to scramble memories so she wouldn't know what happened herself and then buried her alive, figuratively speaking.

Undead, brains scrambled, and full of rage, she honestly had no idea who had inflicted this on her, so her anger directed itself towards the Red Panda almost by default. Some of her plans in that season involved finding ways to fix her condition, only to embrace it when those efforts failed and her final plan being to turn Toronto an "Empire of Death" (also the episode title), and ultimately unite the entire world in death with her at its head. In that final confrontation with the Red Panda, our hero had figured out how to reverse the zombification process, but by this point she's so far gone she rejects this, destroying one of the two tools the Red Panda needed for the job and forcing him to use the other, which would destroy her without item she destroyed.

One gets the impression her final monologue was about her own feelings as much as the world, but in the end she was still a psychotic villainess.

Red Panda: Your reign of terror is over!
Professor Zombie: Reign of terror?! Do you know what you have done?! The perfect world I could have brought about. It could have all begun tonight! A world without pain. A world without fear. Life everlasting in a world free from war, free from hunger.
Red Panda: Free from love, free from beauty. Free from independent thought! Free from life itself!
Professor Zombie: Life had its chance! And what did it ever give us? A broken, shattered world limping pathetically towards a grave of its own making! I would have made the world whole.
Red Panda: You would have united all people in their service to you!
Professor Zombie: Yes! It would have been glorious.

    Do they meet the Heinousness Standard? 
Even without her later Omnicidal Mania, Professor Zombie is a murderer with absolutely no respect for human life, willing to casually murder to achieve whatever end she has in mind. As noted by series creator and Red Panda voice actor Gregg Taylor the notes of a Red Panda comic "for every disposable henchman she created with her Necronium gas, a human being had to die". He regards Professor Zombie as "the most wholly evil creation in the Red Panda's rogue's gallery", equal to Frederic Von Schlitz but without the scale von Schlitz gets by being on a larger stage.

Final Verdict?

Being honest, I could see this one going either way. On the one hand, Professor Zombie's definitely got the chops to be a CM but her worst actions also have an element of sympathy to them that may outweigh her ability to score an entry. I'm not sure if her actions otherwise are enough.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 16th 2021 at 8:20:18 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#265783: Jun 16th 2021 at 8:19:51 PM

Yeah to Nergal and Professor Zombie.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#265784: Jun 16th 2021 at 8:22:43 PM

And sure to Profesor Zombie.

Damn, biggest villain made by Stephen King yet he barely does shit? What a disappointing baddy.

TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#265785: Jun 16th 2021 at 8:24:56 PM

I think that intentional on King's part but I could be wrong.

LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#265787: Jun 16th 2021 at 8:32:13 PM

[tup] Nergal and Professor Zombie PhD

It's Spooky Month!
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#265788: Jun 16th 2021 at 8:37:57 PM

[tup]Raisa, Nergal, & Zombie (or alternatively)

Edited by nwotyzal on Jun 16th 2021 at 8:41:18 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#265789: Jun 16th 2021 at 8:38:47 PM

[up][up] She probably actually does have a PhD, in half-seriousness. Primary reason she might not is being a woman in the 20s/30s, but one episode had the heroes actually track down a villain precisely because any villain who uses "Doctor", "Professor", etc in their name often has the credentials to back it up.

I'll add Professor Zombie to the sandbox entry I'm working on.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 16th 2021 at 8:39:08 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#265790: Jun 16th 2021 at 8:41:59 PM

Yes to Professor Zombie. Sorry missed that EP.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#265791: Jun 16th 2021 at 8:46:41 PM

[tup] to Steven Livingstone, Mad Oniyama, the Ronan rewrite, the The "Werewolf" Killer/ Black Dahlia Killer/Garrett Mason rewrite, General Kyaw Min, Commander-in-Chief Tito, Alex, Dr. Wallace Breen, the unnamed Slave Merchant, Satils Francois, George Armstrong Montgomery, Arnim Zola, the Grandmaster, the Malekith quote, Jagdeep, the Frank Giordino quote, Galen Anderson/Daedalus, Professor Friedrich von Schlitz, Raisa Volkova, Nergal Meslamstea, and Antonia Zombanistro.

[tdown] to the Bone Eater/Torak and the XIII images (none of them look heinous enough). Slight [tdown] to Brock Rumlow/Crossbones for some murky heinousness issues.

@Amanofmanyinterests: Hope you feel better soon and I wish you the best of luck.

@Lightysnake: Hope you're feeling better now.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#265793: Jun 16th 2021 at 8:52:05 PM

[tup]Raisa and Nergal

IPP Wick Check created.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#265794: Jun 16th 2021 at 8:56:45 PM

What page do I add entries to? I thought it would be Sandbox.Complete Monster or Sandbox.Monster but there's nothing in either one and the Administrivia page doesn't seem to have anything I can use.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#265795: Jun 16th 2021 at 9:00:11 PM

Sandbox.Complete Monster Drafts. Once you post them there, ACW will move them to the appropriate subpages - but make sure to post the write-ups here as well

Yes to both of them btw - great job on the EPs!

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jun 16th 2021 at 12:02:30 PM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#265796: Jun 16th 2021 at 9:10:32 PM

Thank you. Here's what I got for the entries themselves. Maybe a bit too long but I tend to favor too much context than not enough.

  • Red Panda Adventures:
    • Professor Friedrich Von Schlitz is a Nazi Mad Scientist and the face of the Third Reich on the podcast. In a setting that utilizes Stupid Jetpack Hitler, Von Schlitz is the man inventing the jetpacks. His contributions to the German war effort include mounted calvary and air forces using dinosaurs, automated drones achieved by hardwiring a gadgeteer supervillain's brain right into the machinery, and coastal defenses powered by an enslaved Eldritch Abomination. Even before his formal introduction as a villain he's suspected, and later confirmed, to have engineered a terrorist attack on an American made zeppelin, having it hijacked and set to crash into Toronto as revenge against the theft of an invention of his when he'd been in the city, justifying it as "an act of justified retribution for an insult against all of Germany." He takes glee in being able to avenge any slight, no matter how minor or major, yet he's also cowardly enough that the moment he's cornered or it's otherwise in his interest to do so, he'll switch sides of plead for mercy. All his declarations of loyalty to the Fuhrer and the Reich go out the window when he's captured by the Allies, both to save his neck and because Hitler had already started to tire of him.
    • As her name suggests, Antonia Zombanistro, better known as the supervillain Professor Zombie, has undead minions as her gimmick. While normally prone to Pragmatic Villainy, committing crimes for material gain and seeing little enough value in a proper Zombie Apocalypse that she once helped to fight one, her crimes are achieved by zombifying people to use as her muscle through Necronium 234, a compound of her own creation. As series creator Gregg Taylor puts her contempt for human life, "for every disposable henchman she created with her Necronium gas, a human being had to die", and she is rarely seen without several minions on hand. She hits her stride in season 9 of the podcast, in which she launches a campaign of majestic vengeance against the Red Panda, incorrectly blaming him for her becoming zombified by her own Necronium and seeking to kill and/or zombify all of the city of Toronto, invoking the very apocalypse she once helped prevent. She makes multiple attempts to hit as large a group as possible; converting her Necronium into a street drug, trying to gas a huge crowd of parade watchers, or introducing Necronium into the water supply. By the time of the Red Panda's and Professor Zombie's final confrontation, he's figured out how to reverse the zombification and thwarted her attempts to poison the city's water, but Zombie rejects the Panda's efforts to save her, destroying a critical part of the cure and forcing the Red Panda to destroy her for good, as she's determined to succeed and she makes clear she only has to win once and he loses everything.

[down] Noted and removed.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 16th 2021 at 9:18:01 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#265797: Jun 16th 2021 at 9:17:37 PM

[up]We don’t really include quotes at the end of writeups anymore, nor do we include anecdotes from creators.

BTW, how many Castlevania keepers do we have?

Edited by nwotyzal on Jun 16th 2021 at 9:21:25 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#265798: Jun 16th 2021 at 9:20:58 PM

[tup] Schlitz, Raisa, Nergal and Zombie

TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#265799: Jun 16th 2021 at 9:22:10 PM

[up][up][up] I don't want to come off as rude as I understand you're a newcomer here, but those two entries are a little too long (especially the second one) and some of the sentences could be cut out.

Would you be okay if I check the entries and cut the fat?

[up][up] Seven I believe.

Edited by TiMBer1566 on Jun 16th 2021 at 9:22:45 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#265800: Jun 16th 2021 at 9:26:30 PM

Damn Seven if we get a few more we may end up with a page never expected that.


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