During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
They made a junior novelization
.
Edited by k410ren on Jun 16th 2021 at 7:14:48 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and killsThe inherent issue with the later, "junior" novelizations compared to the initial full-length novels? The junior ones don't finish the story. They generally, for the purpose of baiting the reader, end around the Act Two phase of the film, and then tell the reader to go watch the movie if they want the ending.
It's hilarious cuz like, DC does this too, and I honestly think a better argument could be made for Shazam's Dr. Sivana in the junior novelization where he murders an entire gala of people compared to a boardroom of corporate stooges in the film. But said junior novelization literally ends before the final battle, so there's no case to be made despite that massive heinousness boost
Edited by Ravok on Jun 16th 2021 at 4:21:38 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Much like how we count film adaptations of novel CMs for the sandboxes if they're close enough in character for it, could we maybe do the same for novelization adaptations of the film characters too (whether or not they were originally a CM)?
The Junior Novelization of Monsters Inc. I believe had the whole story, so I don't think it's the case for all of them.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jun 16th 2021 at 4:23:21 AM
Yeah, Sivana was given major Adaptational Villainy and Badass in the movie. Still doesn't hit thanks to heinousness and a backstory that at least sort of gives him a level of pity, but the film one was very unique in its portrayal of him as a serious threat whose sole "good" quality is that his childhood sucked ass.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!![]()
Yeah, one of the Batman Elseworlds comics.
Hell, we got a version of Ivy up.
Edited by ACW on Jun 16th 2021 at 7:29:54 AM
Here.
What's the work?
Hunt for the Labyrinth killer is a lifetime movie.
Shelby Anderson (Amanda Schull) is a young, sharp attorney working her way up in the DA's office. When the infamous serial killer Daedalus murders the wife of a former Governor (Gina Gershon), Shelby is assigned to the case. Understanding this could make or break her career, Shelby turns to her father — retired Judge Galen Anderson (Michael Nouri), for answers. He is a strong advocate for Justice and stresses the importance of putting the right man behind bars. When Galen was on the bench, he presided over three of the Daedalus trials, ending with false convictions of seemingly innocent men. Galen warns Shelby to proceed with caution; Daedalus could be setting a trap for her.
While prepping for the trial, Shelby is introduced to Detective Mike Holland (Coby Ryan Mc Laughlin), an avid follower of the Daedalus legacy and lead investigator on the case. Soon after their first meeting, Mike shows up at Galen's home with an arrest warrant: DNA evidence links Shelby's father to Karen Donovan's murder.
Sure her father is being framed by the real Daedalus, Shelby quits the DA's office to defend her father. With the help of private investigator Freddie Cook (Eric Schneider), Shelby must do everything she can to ensure another innocent man doesn't end up behind bars.
Who is Daedalus?
Alright here. The big spoiler. Her father, Galen Anderson really is Daedalus.
Galen acts as ever the affable and fair Judge in the daytime, but in reality, he's a psychotic killer who hunts women who cheated on their husbands. He sends them into mazes he's constructed and then chases them before killing them. Over the decades, he's murdered over 35 women like this as part of his mad scheme to make himself a legend.
To cover his tracks, he recruits three apprentices whose job is to be "framed" for the murders, and then new ones arrive, which always helps to give him an alibi. Still, if they get out of line, he has methods of dealing with them.
When Galen found out his wife was cheating on him, he thought it was ironic that a man who kills women who cheat on their husbands has the same thing happen to him. So he killed her by cutting the brakes on her car. His only regret is that he didn't make it a Daedalus murder too, which he explains to his daughter while calling her mother a whore that " got what was coming."
Anyway, Galen is now in his old age and has early-onset Alzheimer's disease. He decides that before he can no longer remember the "delicious scent of death," he wants one last masterpiece. He leaves evidence at his next crime which, indicates himself, leading to his arrest. He then has his daughter, whose a prosecutor investigate and has his last apprentice with the evidence to take the fall. At the same time, he was staging attacks on her via him.
His main plan was to get released so the police would have come so close to catching him but failing in the end. Anyway, Shelby notices that after he's freed that her toys match souvenirs that were taken from the victims.
He knocks her out and sends her to the garage, which he's filled with gas from the car. He offers we can rule together by being his new apprentice, so his legacy can live on. But after, she isn't going to accept. Theirs an air vent he made so she can go through where the gas will leak in.
He creepily stalks her while coldly and sarcastically talking about the "emotional pain" he'll feel and his plan. Basically, he'll have tried to "save her," but the "super smart" Daedulus was just too much, and he died "accidentally" from one of his traps as he's trying to save her. It will make Daedalus a legend like he always wanted.
Anyway, Shelby plays dead, and he comes, and she uses the surprise to attack him. He then explains angrily how she's ruining his plan to go down in history by, you know, being alive and attacks her. She uses his Hammer to bash his brains out, killing him.
Her cop boyfriend arrives and sends her to the hospital.....
At least till science reveals that he's Daedalus's secret final apprentice and that he has a plan for him. Which we will never see since the film is left hanging.
Mitigating factors?
Nah, Galen is a cold-sick sociopath who loves killing.
He "claims" he loves Shelby but says that in his coldest voice before going on a sarcastic conversation while hunting her about how her death will make him a legend. He treats her like an object. When she does confront him, he drops all pretenses and tries to murder her with his bare hands and to rant about how she is ruining his masterpiece.
I admit he's helped a lot by his actor Michael Mouri being a fun card-carrying villain.
Heinous standard?
Over 30 deaths
Edited by miraculous on Jun 16th 2021 at 5:18:24 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

I mean we got his video game version counting, though would his novelization have potential? If the third movie had a novelization that is.