During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
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It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
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Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Dream, Mac Call, the Forgotten One and William
Also, just finished Fractos's CM entry draft, what do you think? Dragon Quest Heroes II: Twin Kings and the Prophecy's End : Fractos, the twin of Unos, originally a co-ruler of the world, was driven by his curve of power and kicked start a war towards his brother and summoned the Dreadbolt to blast his own world, destroying all mortals in it and leaves them unable to go to afterlife, after getting sealed away, Fractos escaped and used various ways to manipulate war in the world, such as murdering King of Denisa while taking the form of King of Harba and giving the peace-loving King of Al-Kazam the Sword of Discord, corrupting him into a ruthless warlord, leading to countless casualties. Later, Fractos manipulated the power-hungry King of Accroida into assisting him in destroying humanity and brainwashed the monsters army into attacking their own country, only to quickly kill him once he is no longer useful to him. Fractos then summoned his castle Black Manse, ready to charge the Dreadbolt to destroy humanity again in the World of Light
Edited by TadiTadTa on Jun 14th 2021 at 4:17:43 PM
I think Iike Gundam and Dragon Quest too muchSince there was some Dragon Ball talk earlier, felt this was a good time for this EP. Okay this is in light of the Made of Evil rule change, one candidate who I will attempt to bring forward. I have thoroughly looked over this character and I think I can make a case. Candidate is King Piccolo from Dragon Ball. Now I know a lot of people will contest this due to the ridiculously high heinous standard, but please hear me out first.
DISCLAIMER: Yes this guy is already listed as an MB, that has nothing to do with why I brought him forward. Please do NOT upvote him solely for being a crossover and carefully consider the points I have listed.
Who is King Piccolo and what has he done?
Once Piccolo was released, he went on rampage across the Earth assisted by several children he spawned, slaughtering city after city of humans over the span of several years. The anime indicates King Piccolo's reign of terror nearly caused the extinction of the human race. He was finally stopped by a martial artist named Mutaito who using a Dangerous Forbidden Technique managed to seal Piccolo away, at the cost of his own life. Piccolo would remain sealed for centuries, where peace was restored to the Earth and humanity was able to recover. However one day, the Pilaf gang stumble upon the rice cooker in which the Demon King was sealed inside, and decide to free him thinking he can assist in their plans to conquer the world.
Upon being freed, King Piccolo's first priority is to kill the greatest martial artists in the world so there would be no one else with the potential to learn the technique that sealed him away. He creates more children, with one son being named Tambourine, who is sent to assassinate all the martial artists, including Krillin. He then creates another son named Cymbal, who collects the Dragon Balls, which Piccolo intends to use to restore his youth. However Cymbal is met with Yajirobe and Goku (who had pursued Tambourine but had been beaten), with Cymbal being killed in this encounter. Sensing the death of his son, King Piccolo sends Tambourine to investigate though advising caution due to not knowing anything about their enemy. Tambourine arrives and has a rematch with a recuperated and very angry Goku, who this time kills the demon spawn.
King Piccolo senses the death of Tambourine, shocked that there exists someone so powerful, and angered there is someone killing his demons. Piccolo vows to kill this mysterious assassin himself, and orders the ship to Goku's location. Upon meeting Goku, Piccolo scoffs at the perpetrator being a mere child, disgusted by his children for failing to defeat him. He and Goku fight, with Goku proving to be the strongest enemy he has ever faced and even manages to knock Piccolo off his feet. However, Goku is still no match for the Demon King, who overwhelms him, beating Goku badly and (apparently) killing Goku with a Makosen. King Piccolo makes sure to check Goku's heart has stopped before being satisfied, taking Goku's Dragon Ball and returns to hunting for the rest of them. Unbeknownst to Piccolo, despite his heart momentarily stopping, Goku was not actually dead and later recuperates with the help of Yajirobe and Korin.
Master Roshi, Tien and Chiaotzu manage to locate all of the remaining Dragon Balls, while Piccolo is busy. Roshi attempts to lure Piccolo out by burying the balls and give them a chance to board Piccolo's ship. However Piccolo takes the initiative to swallow the Dragon Balls. So Roshi changes tactics, stepping into the open and challenges Piccolo himself. King Piccolo is amused this old man knows his name, that is until Roshi reveals he is the student of Master Mutaito, a name which Piccolo recognizes. Roshi then takes out a rice cooker, causing Piccolo to flee, but Roshi ensnares Piccolo in the Evil Containment Wave, but Roshi's aim is off and he misses the rice cooker, so Piccolo remains unsealed but the move still costs Roshi his life. Piccolo then gathers the Dragon Balls and summons Shenron ready for his wish. Chiaotzu tries to make a wish on Shenron first to destroy the Demon King, but is killed by Piccolo midspeech. Piccolo then wishes for Shenron to grant him eternal youth. However before Shenron disappears, Piccolo kills Shenron, ensuring no one could ever use Shenron against him.
With his youth restored, King Piccolo betrays the Pilaf gang and throws them off the ship. He then travels to King Castle to usurp World Leader, King Furry. After murdering scores of King Furry's guards, King Piccolo forces King Furry to renounce leadership to him, forcing him to comply by blowing up a portion of the city. As World King, Piccolo announces his new martial law: all crime being made legal, the disbandment of police and law enforcement, and prohibiting anyone from saying "peace" and "justice" which was punishable via execution. He also holds a commemorative lottery for his coronation, where each year he would draw a number for one of the 43 provinces of Earth. Whichever number he drew was the province he would blow up that year, meaning he intended the Earth to be completely destroyed over 43 years.
Tien however arrives to challenge Piccolo, having mastered the Evil Containment Wave. However, Tien realizes that Roshi's rice cooker has been cracked, making it useless to seal Piccolo (in the anime Drum is caught by the wave instead). Piccolo praises Tien for his martial arts skills, but not wishing to get his hands dirty, hatches another demon spawn, Drum, his most powerful son yet. Drum proceeds to badly beat down Tien, until he is saved by the arrival of the now healed and Ultra Divine Water empowered Goku, who kills Drum in one shot. Piccolo is shocked that the boy he had killed before is still alive.
The two Arch Enemies then proceed to have a climactic rematch, with at one point Goku knocking Piccolo with so much momentum it kills his other son Piano. At one point Piccolo manages to break one of Goku's legs, before knocking away Goku's power-pole to prevent mobility. He then fires a nuclear bomb scale blast that disintegrates the entire town. Goku is saved by Tien who uses his flight to keep Goku away from the blast. Piccolo opts to fire a second weaker blast, which attempts and fails to stop with a punch, so Goku is hit with the brunt of it but still survives. With Piccolo out of stamina, he uses Tien as a hostage to keep Goku still, and propels rocks at to break one of Goku's arms and his other leg. Satisfied that Goku is defenseless, King Piccolo launches in the air preparing to finish him off. However, Goku gambles everything on his one remaining arm, firing a Kamehameha at the ground to propel himself at Piccolo, and blows a hole clean through Piccolo's chest.
Moments from dying, King Piccolo accepts Goku defeated him, but using the last of his energy spits out one last egg, this one containing all of his life-force and memories, Piccolo Jr. his reincarnation. King Picolo tells his son to avenge his life and destroy Goku, before he explodes, finally marking the end of the Demon King.
TL;DR crimes summary
- Caused the near extinction of humans on Earth in his first rampage centuries ago, and likely would have if he hadn't been sealed by Mutaito.
- Upon being freed, hatches a son named Tambourine and sends him to assassinate all the martial artists of the world so no one could seal him again.
- Very nearly kills Goku himself.
- Indirectly causes the death of Master Roshi when the latter uses a suicidal technique against him, followed by directly killing Chiaotzu.
- Uses Shenron to restore his youth, where shortly after he kills the Wish-Granting dragon.
- Betrays the Pilaf Gang who freed him, going against his promise to share power and throwing them off the ship.
- Slaughters many of King Furry's men, then usurps King Furry as King of the World, making sure to blow up a portion of town to make him comply.
- Becoming King of the World, Piccolo establishes a dystopian society by abolishing law enforcement and makes crime legal.
- Holds a "World Lottery" where each year on his coronation he would blow up one of the 43 provinces of the world until every single province was destroyed.
- Hatches a son named Drum who comes close to killing Tien.
- During his fight with Goku, launches a nuclear bomb sized blast that completely wipes out the town.
- Uses Tien as a hostage, almost crushing his head, before breaking each of Goku's limbs one-by-one, before making one final attempt to kill Goku.
- Hatches Piccolo Jr. to continue his legacy of terror just before he dies.
Heinous Standard
Alright since it's all going to boil down to this, let's get the discussion out of the way. Yes, Dragon Ball heinous standards are skyhigh. Pretty much every Big Bad after Vegeta is an Omnicidal Maniac who has or tries to destroy the Earth, with several going even further to have the destruction of several planets under their belt or Zamasu who extended to all of reality.
However, the determining factor here is resources. In Dragon Ball terms, resources all comes down to power level, equating to the level of destruction a character can perform. King Piccolo came from OG Dragon Ball era, which maxed out at around "city-busting" to "moon-busting". Now taking a look at King Piccolo's crimes, during his first rampage, he pulls off near-Omnicidal Mania and in the present his end goal is still the genocide of the human race. There is no indication that once he had completely laid waste to the Earth he would stop there. When you compare him to other Dragon Ball CMs like Cell and Babidi, their only on-screen crimes were restricted to the Earth, but there is no sign they will stop there once the Earth is gone. The exact same can be said for King Piccolo, despite his lower resources, he is as bad as possible.
Now before someone brings up the Van Zant thing again. His situation is quite different. While Van Zant is a thprough piece of shit who does some very very scummy things, but he is not as bad as possible in the setting. He chooses to shoot a bunch of people, when he could have done something far worse like detonate a bomb to kill a hundred.
I think also worth mentioning is Dr Gero. He got downvoted because he mostly wants to kill Goku, with the most heinous thing he does is destroying a city. While he did take part in the creation of Cell and Future Android 17 and 18, he cannot be directly held accountable for their crimes. Cell defected from his creator's wishes to go after Goku and went about his own plans of mass-murdering to keep himself entertained, giving him agency. Future 17 and 18 is a bit trickier, as while Gero did program to hate humans in his plan for world domination, at the same time they ended up defying him as their creator and went about their own thing, since they still killed Gero like they did in the present.
In addition to the simply the scale of King Piccolo's destruction, he also desired to turn the Earth into a dystopic hell full of terror and anarchy. Something no other villain has attempted before so is still a unique enough of a crime to make him stand-out.
For these reasons, I reckon King Piccolo passes the heinous standard as a (by DB standards) low resources CM.
Mitigating Factors?
I admit, this is the thing that almost made me not propose him. Does King Piccolo feel love towards his children? Now there is a trope entry for him that says Even Evil Has Loved Ones, let's see if this is really the case. I have carefully looked over the scenes from both the anime and manga when he finds out Tambourine has been killed. My interpretation is, what King Piccolo displays is shock not grief or sadness. He never visibly mourns the loss of his children, though he is able to feel when they perish due to a psychic link which I imagine causes him discomfort. He also constantly switches from calling them his children to calling them his warriors, putting into question just what he sees them as. This is especially clear when Drum and Piano get killed in front of him, where he doesn't even acknowledge their deaths. With that in mind, it's clear the shock he displayed was merely over the existence of someone powerful enough to kill his demons.
While he is definitely angered by their deaths, I'm unconvinced it's due to love and more he feels his name has been tarnished. In particular one line I have found from the manga is very strong evidence for this, which occurs when King Piccolo sees Goku for the first time:
^Now that sounds awfully close to a You Have Failed Me speech. Really showing how Piccolo feels about his children.
Now sure the dude might not be a Bad Boss like Frieza who actively murders his men over the pettiest reasons, but to call it love? Nah, he still goes about his merry way once he has dealt with Goku and doesn't seem even remotely bothered afterwards. The only exception that King Piccolo undeniably cares for is Piccolo Jr., giving him a speech on growing up strong and avenging his death. But that's a special circumstance since Piccolo Jr. technically is him given that he's King Piccolo's reincarnation. So one could still make the argument that King Piccolo only cares for himself.
Okay with the loved ones angle taken care of, let's address the reason he got cut last time. Yes, King Piccolo technically is Made of Evil. However there is nothing to suggest this effects his agency. This is evidenced through his reincarnation Piccolo Jr., who was born with King Piccolo's life-force and memories packed into him and should have come out virtually identical. But Piccolo Jr. turns out substantially less evil and eventually pulls a Heel–Face Turn.
Final verdict?
Now I fully understand if people still don't think he counts, but still felt I had to say my piece on this guy. Will stay out of the votes to not add my bias in.
Edited by Snowy66 on Jun 14th 2021 at 3:06:33 AM
Yes to the Forgotten One
MacCall's entry:
XIII: Colonel MacCall aka Number XI is the head of the SPADS units, The Conspiracy of the XX's personal army. Creating the SPADS units out of the most thuggish and brutal killers he could find, MacCall harshly abuses them, often threatens them with death and sends the ones, that angered him, to Dr. Johansson to be tortured to the point of insanity. Leading his SPADS units to slaughter everyone in the Emerald Base without the approval of his superiors, MacCall later on gathered a large amount of weapons for The Conspiracy of the XX's scheme of turning US into a fascist state.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jun 14th 2021 at 12:50:50 PM
Hard to say with King Piccolo, cause yeah he's a pretty bad dude but many of the future villains outstage him with their depravity and destruction. Frieza has destroyed entire planets, Cell devoured cities of people to gain power, Super Buu throws a temper tantrum and nearly destroys the universe itself simply to spite Vegito and Zamasu attempts to kill every god and become the new ruler of reality.
King Piccolo is bad, but not planet-destroying, people eating, god-slaying genocidally bad.
That's the point I highlighted. King Piccolo doesn't destroy the planet because he physically is not strong enough to do so. But he goes as far as possible for his capability, which is destroying the planet city by city, which is pretty much exactly what Babidi did.
Also iirc Super Buu trying to destroy the universe was dub only filler.
Edited by Snowy66 on Jun 14th 2021 at 3:19:16 AM
Tbh, I'm still not feeling Piccolo even if we assume he's not Made of Evil.
"There is no indication that once he had completely laid waste to the Earth he would stop there." Imo, that argument comes off as no limits fallacy.
Furthermore, I feel like in that "turn Earth into their personal playground of horror", the Future Androids did something similar and racked up a bigger bodycount.
Using the "hey, he released all prisoners of the world" argument doesn't quite cut it either : I don't remember said criminals — as far as we've seen of them — being that bad unless we go with Fridge Horror.
I rest my case.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
king piccolo
He is literally the concentrated evil of kami. As in was created like that against his will. And I should note that reicarnation here usually sets a character a fresh start which stated by Piccolo jr himself and is shown with Uub so using it is may be not the best evidence.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."![]()
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That would be DB's infamous logic that lots of fans have discussed before: "large city buster > moon buster". Both Goku and King Piccolo explicitly stated he put all of his power behind his blast.
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My point is you can apply that same argument to Cell. Is he really just going to stay there on the ruins of the Earth after he destroyed it?
Well taking into account King Piccolo's first rampage, he racked up a higher bodycount than the Androids. The Androids devastated the Earth, but they fall far short on causing near-extinction of the human race.
Well there definitely exist scummy criminals in Dragon Ball, Van Zant says hi. Gohan also stopped scores of bankrobbers as the Great Saiyaman.
Uub is a different case, divine intervention specifically made him become a good person. King Piccolo intended for Piccolo Jr. to be as bad as he was and for a while he was, but then reformed.
Edited by Snowy66 on Jun 14th 2021 at 5:39:28 AM

I am back, I have a suggestion for DQ CM page's picture's quote: 'My ideal solution! To leave my body intact but use the bodies of others as I wish!'
Edited by TadiTadTa on Jun 14th 2021 at 2:46:56 AM
I think Iike Gundam and Dragon Quest too much