During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Okay, got a more niche movie candidate. Neil Fletcher from Australia.
What is the work?
Australia is a historical film set in Australia!. It takes place in the Northern Territory, during WWII, though it takes quite a few creative liberties in depicting history. The story focuses on an English woman named Lady Sarah Ashley (played by Nicole Kidman), who travels to Australia due to inheriting the ranch Faraway Downs, from her recently murdered husband Lord Ashley. There she meets an Indigenous boy named Nullah, and an unnamed "Drover" (played by Hugh Jackman) who is an archetypal Awesome Aussie. Nullah is at risk of being taken away from his people due to the Stolen Generation due to having white heritage. Opposing them is the rival rancher King Lesley Carney, and the former station manager of Faraway Downs, Neil Fletcher who has his own agenda.
Who is Neil Fletcher and what has he done?
Neil Fletcher starts off as the station manager of Faraway Downs and wishes to gain control of it, so he can sell the estate to cattle tycoon King Carney. It is later revealed, he is he one who murdered Lord Ashley, by spearing him, in order to frame it as the work of a local Indigenous man, King George (Nullah's grandfather). When meeting his new boss Lady Sarah, he maintains a Faux Affably Evil facade, but she soon sees his abusive attitude towards the local indigenous folk, Nullah and Nullah's mother. Lady Sarah fires him on the spot, but he warns her that when he leaves all of the cattlehands leave with him. Out of spite, he also sets all of the cattle loose, forcing the heroes to round them back up.
Fletcher fully allies with King Carney, where the two ranches compete with each other in cattle transporting for the Allied forces. Despite being outnumbered in men, Sarah's Ragtag Bunch of Misfits manage to use cunning to transport their cattle first and secure their deal. In the celebratory ball, Sarah finally meets King Carney himself, who is the highest bidder in an auction for a chance to dance with her. Turns out Carney was kept in the dark to Fletcher's schemes, and is shocked when Sarah reveals the truth to him.
Carney furiously confronts Fletcher over his treachery, who responds in kind by murdering his boss by feeding him to crocodiles to make it look like an accident. He then marries Carney's daughter in order to inherit his wealth. Fletcher then returns to Faraway Downs and tries to blackmail her into selling Faraway Downs by threatening Nullah's safety (who having lost his mother, is now adopted by Sarah) while also revealing that he is Nullah's father.
It is 1942, the year of the Darwin bombings. The Faraway Downs trio had feared each other dead in the confusion and just been reunited. Fletcher has also been hit hard by the bombings, in financial ruin and his 'wife' now dead. He shows up and attempts to murder Nullah out of spite with a soldier's rifle, before King George spears him in the back, the same way he killed Lord Ashley, putting an end to his treachery.
Mitigating Factors?
Let's see. He's Nullah's father, who he is abusive towards, threatens and later attempts to kill. It isn't really explained how he came to sleep with Nullah's mother, but he treats her with equal disdain so safe to say he doesn't love her either. He married Carney's daughter solely for being a Gold Digger. He does look a little glum near the end of the film, but I'd say it's a stretch to put that on the death of Carney's daughter. For most of the film, Fletcher only cares about money and since he lost all of that, think it's safe to say that's what was causing him to be upset. Plus it's a certain level of f**ked up to marry the daughter of the man you just murdered.
Oh and no Freudian Excuse or anything. Nothing is ever given about his past. He's just fueled by greed, simple as that.
Heinous standard?
Fletcher sets it. There is no one else in the film that comes even remotely close to being as treacherous as him. He kills two of his bosses solely for profit (including feeding one to crocodiles). He's also willing to kill children, including his own son, and shows heavy racism towards him and the Indigenous folk. Plus once again, murdering your boss and then marrying his daughter to inherit his wealth. Deeply disturbing.
Final verdict?
Edited by Snowy66 on Jun 13th 2021 at 8:48:02 AM
No to Neil.
Link
to my proposed Pinhead quotes so they don't get buried.
Zobek, Volvo, Gasparde, Goblin, Yamao, Higuro, Honjo, Karja, Elm, Malekith, Basketball Monster, Dream, MacCall, The Forgotten One.
Abstain on Narwa.
Kammy, Dark Star, Fletcher.
RIP Ned
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me BlaineAlright, not sure if this has been brought up before but... has Rocket Edition Pokemon Fire Red been talked about? It doesn't even have a YMMV page and was only finished in 2020, so I'm guessing not, but just in case... does anyone think Professor Samuel Oak counts? I get the hero is a Villain Protagonist, but there's plenty of stuff he won't do, compared to the likes of Oak who created Red in a secret lab to rule Kanto with an iron fist and kill every villain in the name of "justice". He was even planning on killing ex-Champion Lance through execution, who has been retconned to be Johto's leader of the armies. He shows zero remorse for killing Agatha, is quick to throw Red away like a used tool when he fails to the stop the Villain Protagonist, and created Mewtwo among other things.
I could do a full effortpost if he hasn't been talked about. He has zero redeeming qualities and has no well intentioned goals keeping him from being this trope, but I feel like he might even so fail the heinous standard of Pokemon, considering he doesn't torture anyone but Red and mainly goes after villains.
I've done my research, and I couldn't find any traces of this being discussed before, and if it has, I apologize.
Edited by Klavice on Jun 13th 2021 at 10:10:03 AM
So, I just watched Compound Fracture and whoo boy, does it have a truly evil villain. Unless someone has called Compound Fracture, then I could dump this one but here's my write-up for William.
What is the Work?
Compound Fracture is a 2013 American supernatural horror movie. It stars Tyler Mane, who co-written and produced the movie, Derek Mears, and Muse Watson.
After the death of his sister, Michael Wolffsen (Mane) returns home with his fiancee and his recently orphaned nephew to take care of his father Gary (Watson). Gary, suffering from symptoms of dementia, has become extremely paranoid and has made his home an unassailable compound, believing that a supernatural force is out to get him. Michael soon discovers that Gary has a reason to be scared, the ghost of William (Mears) lurks outside the house and won't stop until he kills off every last member of the Wolffsen family.
Who is William?
William is the boyfriend of Michael's sister, Chloe. In life, he was abusive to her and their son, Brandon. One night, after Chloe was going to leave him and live with her brother and his girlfriend Juliette, William stabs Chloe to death, forcing Michael to kill him. But little does he know that merely just allows him to come back as a ghost.
Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Nope. He's an abusive scumbag in life, who returns even in death to keep on tormenting and killing his family, including his son, brother-in-law.
Heinousness Standard?
Returning as a ghost, William constantly haunts Brandon. He continues to harm his son, scaring him or almost killing him. William appears to Michael, forcing him to relive the night he killed him and showing him visions of him killing Brandon, Chloe, and Juliette.
After killing Gary's wife Annabelle and her niece, as well as two cops purely out of malice, Michael finds out William was able to return because of Nordic marks Chloe carved on her family's skin years ago. With these marks, the mark wearers can stay lingering in the physical plane even after death. Even with the family sending him away temporarily, William manages to break Brandon's arm again, which he had done so in the past and thrashes Michael around to a bloody pulp. Michael is able to defeat William, with the help of his sister and his father, who sacrifices himself in order to enact the spell that would disband those who bear the mark.
But who's to say that even after death, the spirit still remains?
Final Verdict?
An easy
to Derek Mears
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Are you sure this isn't a Ron the Death Eater case?
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jun 13th 2021 at 10:50:57 AM
He's a Hate Sink for sure, but he's got more personality than a Ron the Death Eater case. Besides, if we can list an alternate version of Elm, why not Oak too?
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It's in a similar state to that fic where it's meant to be a Darker and Edgier take on Pokemon, but within reasonability.
Here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=10588#comment-264680
is the effortpost for Elm.
If anything, it's meant to be a ACI on Team Rocket, and while Oak gets away scot-free in the bad ending, in the good one he's executed under Lance's government. It also gives this treatment to Bill (who is far from the friendly Pokemaniac in canon), Lance (he's a dictator who wishes to bring criminals to justice), Red (the experiment), the Day Care Man, Agatha, Blaine, Lt Surge, and Oak. So if anything, it's meant to be a darker retelling, a what-if scenario.
Here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/PokemonFireRedRocketEdition
is the game's page. Decide for yourselves.
I think it's fairly easy to tell the difference between Ron the Death Eater and simple Adaptational Villainy: with the former, the desire to bash the character tends to obviously bleed into the writing.

Yes to the first Pinhead quote and the latest Dragon Quest image