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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#263401: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:10:06 PM

The page history can be saved via the Wayback Machine.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#263402: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:10:52 PM

[up] Only the most recent fifteen edits. There's a glitch keeping people from seeing the rest unless they're logged in.

Why are you so up in arms about cutting this anyway?

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Jun 7th 2021 at 12:11:09 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#263403: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:15:34 PM

I'm not doing this. Why are you pushing so hard to keep dead links?

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#263404: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:16:26 PM

Yeah, these kinds of dead links are always deleted across the rest of the site.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#263405: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:16:28 PM

Why are we discussing this so intently? If a page doesn't exist what is the problem with cutting the dead link? I say we just cut them.

Edited by Bullman on Jun 7th 2021 at 2:18:01 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#263406: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:17:14 PM

[up][up][up] Because they still have page history and the only justification given for removing them is "I think they're annoying".

[up][up] No, they're not. I can show you if you'd like.

[up] Well, what's the harm in doing nothing and letting them stay?

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Jun 7th 2021 at 12:19:06 PM

Amanofmanyinterests Gotta love Jaws! Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#263408: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:20:06 PM

Save the history if you want, A dead link is not a family heirloom to be preserved at all costs

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#263409: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:20:53 PM

[up] I'd love to, but there's a glitch that makes that impossible as of right now.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#263410: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:27:43 PM

Also, why is the edit history so important to preserve it doesn't really have anything that interesting its just edits of mods adding new entries every week or so.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#263411: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:29:16 PM

Like, everything there is on the pages as they exist...

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#263412: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:29:16 PM

Get rid of the dead links, it's for a non existent page and this is a topic the rest of us have made our feelings clear on. Please stop ignoring consensus to keep arguing, filing ATT reports and questioning every step of the way.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#263413: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:29:24 PM

[up][up][up] Well, I'd rather we have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

[up] I don't think we've achieved consensus yet.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Jun 7th 2021 at 12:31:18 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#263414: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:31:16 PM

It's a dead. link.

There is no content. There is no reason to keep it. Stop it.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#263415: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:31:57 PM

[up][up] What on earth would we need it for?

I vote to the redirects

Edited by Libraryseraph on Jun 7th 2021 at 3:32:18 PM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#263416: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:33:02 PM

This isn't just me saying this. ACW has also said he's not sure the links need to be cut.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#263417: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:33:17 PM

I also vote to cut the dead redirects - thanks to the Locked Pages page, it would take maybe ten minutes to cut all of them at once

And off topic, but yes to the Mandarin

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jun 7th 2021 at 3:40:32 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#263418: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:34:08 PM

I'm gonna go ahead and restate my feeling that consensus has been achieved...

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#263419: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:34:25 PM

If I may ask, why is cutting these redirects so popular all of a sudden? They've been there for literal years, and nobody cared before. Hell, they've proven useful in keeping continuity when it comes to recreating pages.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#263420: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:36:21 PM

Because it got mentioned and we have an opinion on it? Like, I'm not quite sure what you're looking for

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#263421: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:37:08 PM

It's probably just that nobody really noticed them until I pointed it out.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#263422: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:37:23 PM

[up][up] I'm legitimately trying to understand your perspective, see if there's something I'm missing

[up] Hmm. I guess I just assumed everyone else already knew they existed.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Jun 7th 2021 at 12:38:41 PM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#263424: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:40:19 PM

They accomplish nothing, it would take literal minutes to get rid of them, there's no reason to keep them around, and because we might as well do it, all of which has been said a bunch of ways already

Like I said, the Locked Pages page is a quick way to see everything, anyone else mind if I take the chainsaw and throw all the dead redirects I find to the Cut List?

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#263425: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:40:20 PM

[up] If I may give my own perspective, it takes more effort to remove them than to keep them around, so if they're not actively hurting things in some way, I see no real reason to cut them. They can just as easily be ignored.

Back on topic, [tup] to the Mandarin

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Jun 7th 2021 at 12:41:35 PM


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